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I mean they may also make your memory worse if you always go straight for the llm instead of trying to remember.

by sureglymop 2y ago

ben_w 2y ago
I can't remember, was it Aristotle or Plato who said that about writing?
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure it was Socrates but I might be hallucinating
- svieira 2y ago
  It was Socrates - and he was correct. When was the last time you met someone who could recite The Iliad from memory? But more to the point ... in Phaedrus he's not talking about "who will memorize the Iliad now that we have the written word", he's talking about "can the written word _teach_". And the answer (as always) is "no and yes". > and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem [275b] to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise. https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0174%3Atext%3DPhaedrus%3Apage%3D275 https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext... and https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1636/1636-h/1636-h.htm#link2H_4_0002:~:text=The%20specific%20which,without%20the%20reality https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1636/1636-h/1636-h.htm#link2....
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    Tons of people can recite the Bible and the Koran from memory.
- wrtasfg 2y ago
  But where do chatbots fit into this? Cribbing from your neighbor in an exam? Watching TV?

I mean they may also make your memory worse if you always go straight for the llm instead of trying to remember.

ben_w 2y ago

I can't remember, was it Aristotle or Plato who said that about writing?

IggleSniggle 2y ago
I'm pretty sure it was Socrates but I might be hallucinating
svieira 2y ago
It was Socrates - and he was correct. When was the last time you met someone who could recite The Iliad from memory? But more to the point ... in Phaedrus he's not talking about "who will memorize the Iliad now that we have the written word", he's talking about "can the written word _teach_". And the answer (as always) is "no and yes". > and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem [275b] to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise. https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0174%3Atext%3DPhaedrus%3Apage%3D275 https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext... and https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1636/1636-h/1636-h.htm#link2H_4_0002:~:text=The%20specific%20which,without%20the%20reality https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1636/1636-h/1636-h.htm#link2....
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  Tons of people can recite the Bible and the Koran from memory.
wrtasfg 2y ago
But where do chatbots fit into this? Cribbing from your neighbor in an exam? Watching TV?