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The email thread continues. Linus later responded with: >No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - wer

by v1ne 2y ago

The email thread continues. Linus later responded with: >No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers. >I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them. Which I find pretty concerning statements, quite a disservice to the community. It's a global community, and here the maintainers take some action without explanation. They don't even have a communiqué at hand to tell people what this action is, why it was taken, and which alternatives were considered but rejected. This is the bare minimum that I expect of the maintainers of a piece of software that is very critical to many millions of systems worldwide. Counting on the goodwill of users is not acceptable for an operating system that underpins the security of people's computers.

riehwvfbk 2y ago
[flagged]
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  If it walks, talks, and looks like a duck it's probably a duck.
  - riehwvfbk 2y ago
    Does this also apply to brainwashed zombies?
  - Fifnmar101 2y ago
    Has Nazi become a symbol rather than a concept to you? Is it true that 'Nazi = US enemies'? Do you agree that Israel are playing Nazi's deeds?
    - Wytwwww 2y ago
      Nazi might be too strong? Don't think they used that word though? Russia is an objectively fascist (not technically "nazi" of course) state, though. It literally ticks almost all the boxes.
      - Fifnmar101 2y ago
        Just to be clear, I'm not saying good words to any regime. I mean both the US sanction and the Russian invasion suck. I don't want another country bossing over what you can do, and I don't want another country pointing guns on your head either. Russia is bad, but that doesn't mean I'm in support of bans like this without a reason. Just because you "have the reason to commit crimes" is not strong enough a reason to exclude you! How child's bully it is!
        Wytwwww 2y ago
        > don't want another country bossing over what you can do So we agree that invading other countries is wrong. However you believe that a country has the inherent right to do anything (including imprisoning, murdering them etc. etc.) to its citizens and face no external repercussions? At the same time other countries do not have the right to not do business with that country or to prevent its citizens from doing that. Seems slightly contradictory? No? > not strong enough a reason to exclude you IMHO that just sounds like a pretext to me and the removal itself seems like mainly a political statement (especially considering the rhetoric coming from Linus himself). Not that I'd have any issues with that whatsoever (if those people really want to keep their maintainer status so strongly they could've just moved to another country like a over a million of other Russians did.)
        homebrewer 2y ago
        Most of those emigrees have returned. Out of all people I personally know only two still live abroad, and only one of them has no plans to ever go back (but has not changed his passport because it's truly difficult). And saying "they could easily have emigrated" shows that you have zero touch with the common man. No, many people can't "simply leave" even if their profession is in demand. Edit: ah, I now see your other comments. No further discussion needed, don't forget to label me either a paid troll, a useful idiot, or both.
        riehwvfbk 2y ago
        It helps to think of these people as essentially Mao's Red Guards. They are (I hope) still very young and as a result very absolutist in their thinking. They are fanatical about their country being the best because they haven't seen or experienced much else. And they get a sense of power from belonging to what they think is the group of the People Who Are Always Right. Mao's Red Guards. Because these ducks quack like those ones did.
    - immibis 2y ago
      My comment would be deleted if I answered your question about Israel, but there is no mainstream left-wing media or left-wing political party in the USA.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  Not everyone... Some might also be useful idiot or uncompensated trolls doing it as a hobby?
scoofy 2y ago
Open source means put up or shut up. If you don’t like the institutions, then build it yourself. You can’t cry foul when the group is literally providing you with free software. Open source institutions don’t own anyone anything beyond open software.
- woleium 2y ago
  That is the letter of the law, yes. I would suggest though that the spirit / intent behind the law includes fostering a community, which in turn encourages open and clear communication.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    > spirit / intent behind the law What specific law are you talking about?
    - woleium 2y ago
      the GPL
      - throwup238 2y ago
        The GNU General Public Law?
        talldayo 2y ago
        No, the legally binding licenses that fall under the purview of Copyleft enforcement. A critical component of modern Free Software is licenses that absolve the primary author of liability that is implicitly agreed-upon when contributing third-party code. If these contributors disagreed with the terms of the GPL then they had 30 years to realize it.
- immibis 2y ago
  And right now Linus is not putting up, is suddenly actively refusing to put up, and we're all very concerned about that. As an open source community leader, putting up consists of leading well, and transparently. It's not just a coding role. He may have inherited the leadership role by being the original coder but he has to keep it by being a worthy leader. I speculate Linus or Greg received the equivalent of a National Security Letter. Otherwise they could point to the regulations.

by v1ne 2y ago

riehwvfbk 2y ago

[flagged]

TiredOfLife 2y ago
If it walks, talks, and looks like a duck it's probably a duck.
- riehwvfbk 2y ago
  Does this also apply to brainwashed zombies?
- Fifnmar101 2y ago
  Has Nazi become a symbol rather than a concept to you? Is it true that 'Nazi = US enemies'? Do you agree that Israel are playing Nazi's deeds?
  - Wytwwww 2y ago
    Nazi might be too strong? Don't think they used that word though? Russia is an objectively fascist (not technically "nazi" of course) state, though. It literally ticks almost all the boxes.
    - Fifnmar101 2y ago
      Just to be clear, I'm not saying good words to any regime. I mean both the US sanction and the Russian invasion suck. I don't want another country bossing over what you can do, and I don't want another country pointing guns on your head either. Russia is bad, but that doesn't mean I'm in support of bans like this without a reason. Just because you "have the reason to commit crimes" is not strong enough a reason to exclude you! How child's bully it is!
      - Wytwwww 2y ago
        > don't want another country bossing over what you can do So we agree that invading other countries is wrong. However you believe that a country has the inherent right to do anything (including imprisoning, murdering them etc. etc.) to its citizens and face no external repercussions? At the same time other countries do not have the right to not do business with that country or to prevent its citizens from doing that. Seems slightly contradictory? No? > not strong enough a reason to exclude you IMHO that just sounds like a pretext to me and the removal itself seems like mainly a political statement (especially considering the rhetoric coming from Linus himself). Not that I'd have any issues with that whatsoever (if those people really want to keep their maintainer status so strongly they could've just moved to another country like a over a million of other Russians did.)
        homebrewer 2y ago
        Most of those emigrees have returned. Out of all people I personally know only two still live abroad, and only one of them has no plans to ever go back (but has not changed his passport because it's truly difficult). And saying "they could easily have emigrated" shows that you have zero touch with the common man. No, many people can't "simply leave" even if their profession is in demand. Edit: ah, I now see your other comments. No further discussion needed, don't forget to label me either a paid troll, a useful idiot, or both.
        riehwvfbk 2y ago
        It helps to think of these people as essentially Mao's Red Guards. They are (I hope) still very young and as a result very absolutist in their thinking. They are fanatical about their country being the best because they haven't seen or experienced much else. And they get a sense of power from belonging to what they think is the group of the People Who Are Always Right. Mao's Red Guards. Because these ducks quack like those ones did.
  - immibis 2y ago
    My comment would be deleted if I answered your question about Israel, but there is no mainstream left-wing media or left-wing political party in the USA.
Wytwwww 2y ago
Not everyone... Some might also be useful idiot or uncompensated trolls doing it as a hobby?

scoofy 2y ago

Open source means put up or shut up. If you don’t like the institutions, then build it yourself. You can’t cry foul when the group is literally providing you with free software. Open source institutions don’t own anyone anything beyond open software.

woleium 2y ago
That is the letter of the law, yes. I would suggest though that the spirit / intent behind the law includes fostering a community, which in turn encourages open and clear communication.
- throwup238 2y ago
  > spirit / intent behind the law What specific law are you talking about?
  - woleium 2y ago
    the GPL
    - throwup238 2y ago
      The GNU General Public Law?
      - talldayo 2y ago
        No, the legally binding licenses that fall under the purview of Copyleft enforcement. A critical component of modern Free Software is licenses that absolve the primary author of liability that is implicitly agreed-upon when contributing third-party code. If these contributors disagreed with the terms of the GPL then they had 30 years to realize it.
immibis 2y ago
And right now Linus is not putting up, is suddenly actively refusing to put up, and we're all very concerned about that. As an open source community leader, putting up consists of leading well, and transparently. It's not just a coding role. He may have inherited the leadership role by being the original coder but he has to keep it by being a worthy leader. I speculate Linus or Greg received the equivalent of a National Security Letter. Otherwise they could point to the regulations.