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> such as AccuWeather, GasBuddy, Grindr, and MyFitnessPal that collect your MAID and location and sell that to brokers. Welp, that's the final straw I needed t

> such as AccuWeather, GasBuddy, Grindr, and MyFitnessPal that collect your MAID and location and sell that to brokers. Welp, that's the final straw I needed to nuke that fucking GasBuddy app from my phone. Goddamn I hate them so much

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
It's a damn shame. I've stopped using pretty much all apps because I can't trust any of them. My phone is practically stock.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  I would _guess_ that the systemic solution to this problem is one of those whole device VPNs that doesn't choose to hide your location but rather blocks access to ad and tracker networks. I actually have DDG's Privacy Pro VPN <https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy-pro/vpn/app-tracking-protection/ https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy-pro/vpn...> but my life experience has been that it breaks more things than it helps but I guess it's time to at least try it
- casenmgreen 2y ago
  It's worse than you think. There are popular third-party libraries, used by apps, offering whatever functionality. Those third-party libraries do deals with whoever, to include into the library whatever code it is the whoever wants to get out onto a ton of phones. I worked for a company in Germany, who wanted to get some Bluetooth base station detection functionality out into phones, so they could track people. Company put Bluetooth base stations into a bunch of locations, and then paid a major third-party library to include their code. Bingo. One week later, millions of phones being tracked. When you install an app, you are in fact installing God knows what from shady friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend, who's got money. Do not install commercial apps. Only install open source apps. Anything else, you're going to be abused, whether you know it or not.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
    > Do not install commercial apps. This advice is about as practical as "go live in a cave". At some point, you have to decide whether avoiding the privacy harm limits your ability to function, and sadly, that is increasingly the case.
    - casenmgreen 2y ago
      I live in a cave :-)
  - nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
    I guess I'm an oldhead millenial or whatever, but I thought this was standard procedure among "computer savvy" people post-Snowden. Crazy I work with Zoomers that install seemingly every dumb retail app so they can get a dollar off a Big Mac or whatever. There's no reason for a "McDonalds App" to be on anyone's phone. I can wait a few minutes in line, thanks.
- autoexec 2y ago
  Stay away from Samsung. Their default apps (which you often can't uninstall or disable) collect massive amounts of data. The default Samsung keyboard that came installed with an old Galaxy I had was logging every single letter I typed in every app and sending it to a third party whose privacy policy said it was being used for marketing research, to determine my intelligence, education level, habits, attitude, etc.
arcanemachiner 2y ago
Seems like one of those apps that would work fine from the website.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  (a) I'm about to find out (b) at least some casual tire-kicking shows that their mobile website is just as ragingly dumb as the app is, so that actually makes me feel a little better - it's not that the app itself is stupid, it's that their dev team is
  - jjulius 2y ago
    Genuinely curious, since I've never heard of the app until this very moment - do you actually find that you save a noticeable amount on gas? I tend to notice that prices are incredibly similar from station to station in whatever general metro area I'm in, to the point where it almost doesn't make a difference which station I go to. Has it actually shown a benefit wrt driving out of your way as opposed to stopping at the most convenient spot on your commute?
    - mdaniel 2y ago
      Reasonable people are going to differ about what "noticeable" means, and it will further differ based on the size of the tank in your vehicle, since a $0.04 difference times 8 gallons is not going to be the same as times 75 gallons But, to answer your question, yes: I just checked and the spread seems to be $5.19 to $4.19 here. But to circle back to your original premise it's quite possible that even $15-ish is not worth the glucose/time spent interacting with this objectively terrible app and then driving to some likely inconvenient station
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
frogblast 2y ago
You can still use the app. You get asked both to have the app get access to the MAID, and get access to location. If this is a problem, it is a problem because you said Yes to both. You could have said No. You can change that choice now. If you go to Settings -> Privacy, the top two options in iOS 18 are: * Auto-deny Advertising ID access * Which apps have location access ("X always, Y while using the app" is summarized right at the top)
- mdaniel 2y ago
  I thank goodness I don't use iOS because I enjoy having the ability to use MY phone as if I own it and not Tim Apple
  - dbtc 2y ago
    I haven't used android in a while, how is it different?
    - nobody9999 2y ago
      LineageOS[0] (and/or other non-Google OS)+F-Droid[1] (and/or other third-party app stores) allow you to avoid Google altogether. Which is nothing new. Is that possible with IOS to avoid Apple? I think not. [0] https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/ [1] https://f-droid.org/en/ https://f-droid.org/en/ Edit: Clarified my question as to what's possible with IOS.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - dbtc 2y ago
        Fair point. I am glad these projects exist in case I do actually want to avoid Apple at some point.
    - literalAardvark 2y ago
      It's worse in every way, unless you're using a ROM, in which case it's worse in every way and your applications also refuse to start because Google's Remote Attestation service doesn't like you being free (despite Android technically having a better way to do attestation).
us0r 2y ago
I've been bitching about GasBuddy since at least 2018 (I'm sure even further I'm too lazy to keep looking). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16776028#16776762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16776028#16776762 I've pretty much deleted all apps. I'm working on dumping my phone all together but shit like mandated 2FA is screwing that up.
- philipov 2y ago
  At this point, 2FA is the only thing I use my phone for anymore. It's the only reason I even have a phone; I spent about a year without one until I had to for 2FA. But I don't need to carry it around anywhere for that. It would be inaccurate to call it a "mobile" device.
  - waterproof 2y ago
    It wouldn’t be too hard to create a physical device that can only be used to set up and retrieve Authenticator-app style 2FA codes. All you’d need is a camera to read QR codes, a display, a few kB of storage and some pretty basic processing. But then I guess that storage would need to be encrypted with some sort of authentication. Hmm.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      Sounds a bit like Precursor.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      What about extending the protocol to an actual channel-bound challenge-response one, without the need for a (risky) out-of-band key exchange via a QR code? We could call it something like Web Authentication. I could even imagine small, keychain-sized USB authenticators that you have to touch a capacitive button on to approve an authentication :)
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Yubikey, FIDO2, etc already exists, though not supported everywhere.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

It's a damn shame. I've stopped using pretty much all apps because I can't trust any of them. My phone is practically stock.

mdaniel 2y ago
I would _guess_ that the systemic solution to this problem is one of those whole device VPNs that doesn't choose to hide your location but rather blocks access to ad and tracker networks. I actually have DDG's Privacy Pro VPN <https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy-pro/vpn/app-tracking-protection/ https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy-pro/vpn...> but my life experience has been that it breaks more things than it helps but I guess it's time to at least try it
casenmgreen 2y ago
It's worse than you think. There are popular third-party libraries, used by apps, offering whatever functionality. Those third-party libraries do deals with whoever, to include into the library whatever code it is the whoever wants to get out onto a ton of phones. I worked for a company in Germany, who wanted to get some Bluetooth base station detection functionality out into phones, so they could track people. Company put Bluetooth base stations into a bunch of locations, and then paid a major third-party library to include their code. Bingo. One week later, millions of phones being tracked. When you install an app, you are in fact installing God knows what from shady friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend, who's got money. Do not install commercial apps. Only install open source apps. Anything else, you're going to be abused, whether you know it or not.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  > Do not install commercial apps. This advice is about as practical as "go live in a cave". At some point, you have to decide whether avoiding the privacy harm limits your ability to function, and sadly, that is increasingly the case.
  - casenmgreen 2y ago
    I live in a cave :-)
- nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
  I guess I'm an oldhead millenial or whatever, but I thought this was standard procedure among "computer savvy" people post-Snowden. Crazy I work with Zoomers that install seemingly every dumb retail app so they can get a dollar off a Big Mac or whatever. There's no reason for a "McDonalds App" to be on anyone's phone. I can wait a few minutes in line, thanks.
autoexec 2y ago
Stay away from Samsung. Their default apps (which you often can't uninstall or disable) collect massive amounts of data. The default Samsung keyboard that came installed with an old Galaxy I had was logging every single letter I typed in every app and sending it to a third party whose privacy policy said it was being used for marketing research, to determine my intelligence, education level, habits, attitude, etc.

arcanemachiner 2y ago

Seems like one of those apps that would work fine from the website.

mdaniel 2y ago
(a) I'm about to find out (b) at least some casual tire-kicking shows that their mobile website is just as ragingly dumb as the app is, so that actually makes me feel a little better - it's not that the app itself is stupid, it's that their dev team is
- jjulius 2y ago
  Genuinely curious, since I've never heard of the app until this very moment - do you actually find that you save a noticeable amount on gas? I tend to notice that prices are incredibly similar from station to station in whatever general metro area I'm in, to the point where it almost doesn't make a difference which station I go to. Has it actually shown a benefit wrt driving out of your way as opposed to stopping at the most convenient spot on your commute?
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    Reasonable people are going to differ about what "noticeable" means, and it will further differ based on the size of the tank in your vehicle, since a $0.04 difference times 8 gallons is not going to be the same as times 75 gallons But, to answer your question, yes: I just checked and the spread seems to be $5.19 to $4.19 here. But to circle back to your original premise it's quite possible that even $15-ish is not worth the glucose/time spent interacting with this objectively terrible app and then driving to some likely inconvenient station
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

frogblast 2y ago

You can still use the app. You get asked both to have the app get access to the MAID, and get access to location. If this is a problem, it is a problem because you said Yes to both. You could have said No. You can change that choice now. If you go to Settings -> Privacy, the top two options in iOS 18 are: * Auto-deny Advertising ID access * Which apps have location access ("X always, Y while using the app" is summarized right at the top)

mdaniel 2y ago
I thank goodness I don't use iOS because I enjoy having the ability to use MY phone as if I own it and not Tim Apple
- dbtc 2y ago
  I haven't used android in a while, how is it different?
  - nobody9999 2y ago
    LineageOS[0] (and/or other non-Google OS)+F-Droid[1] (and/or other third-party app stores) allow you to avoid Google altogether. Which is nothing new. Is that possible with IOS to avoid Apple? I think not. [0] https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/ [1] https://f-droid.org/en/ https://f-droid.org/en/ Edit: Clarified my question as to what's possible with IOS.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dbtc 2y ago
      Fair point. I am glad these projects exist in case I do actually want to avoid Apple at some point.
  - literalAardvark 2y ago
    It's worse in every way, unless you're using a ROM, in which case it's worse in every way and your applications also refuse to start because Google's Remote Attestation service doesn't like you being free (despite Android technically having a better way to do attestation).

us0r 2y ago

I've been bitching about GasBuddy since at least 2018 (I'm sure even further I'm too lazy to keep looking). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16776028#16776762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16776028#16776762 I've pretty much deleted all apps. I'm working on dumping my phone all together but shit like mandated 2FA is screwing that up.

philipov 2y ago
At this point, 2FA is the only thing I use my phone for anymore. It's the only reason I even have a phone; I spent about a year without one until I had to for 2FA. But I don't need to carry it around anywhere for that. It would be inaccurate to call it a "mobile" device.
- waterproof 2y ago
  It wouldn’t be too hard to create a physical device that can only be used to set up and retrieve Authenticator-app style 2FA codes. All you’d need is a camera to read QR codes, a display, a few kB of storage and some pretty basic processing. But then I guess that storage would need to be encrypted with some sort of authentication. Hmm.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    Sounds a bit like Precursor.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    What about extending the protocol to an actual channel-bound challenge-response one, without the need for a (risky) out-of-band key exchange via a QR code? We could call it something like Web Authentication. I could even imagine small, keychain-sized USB authenticators that you have to touch a capacitive button on to approve an authentication :)
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Yubikey, FIDO2, etc already exists, though not supported everywhere.