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This argumentative pattern comes up regularly. It's the idea that someone arguing against something they think is wrong (on moral, strategic, practical grounds

by fwn 2y ago

This argumentative pattern comes up regularly. It's the idea that someone arguing against something they think is wrong (on moral, strategic, practical grounds - it doesn't matter) is somehow less valid because it's unlikely that the arguing person will ever be personally affected by it. It's completely bogus, though; technically, it's an ad hominem. A distraction.

meiraleal 2y ago
the argumentative pattern of defending billionaires that exploit society reducing arguments to fallacies also comes up very regularly. A distraction.
- FredPret 2y ago
  My life is materially and socially richer because of Facebook and Instagram. I frequently get laser-focused targeted ads that actually help me discover products I love. Unsure how I’m getting exploited. Seems to me I’m better off all round and all I had to do was to be alive in 2024.
  - stackghost 2y ago
    I have never in my life encountered an advertisement that I enjoyed. Nor have I ever encountered a product that I "loved". That is a completely bizarre and alien mindset to my own.
  - consteval 2y ago
    I truly cannot fathom there are people who actually enjoy ultra-targeted ads. You understand the purpose of advertising is to attempt to manipulate you into spending money you wouldn't otherwise, right? Even if you enjoy the product, I too enjoyed smoking. A lot. I miss it actually. The point is that it's targeting your brain, and the monkey-brain of humanity in general, with the intention of siphoning money from you to them. Hyper-consumerism isn't a virtue, it's an addiction. Sincerely, I doubt you'd be worse off if you bought less stuff. Or, rather, considered your purchases in a less impulsive manner - buying from an ad is impulsive. I also struggle to understand how Facebook and Instagram have made anyone "socially richer". From where I'm standing, the proliferation of social media has greatly increased all the bad parts of human social nature. Competitiveness, insecurity, self-hatred. These platforms are designed for maximum engagement and as such they target your most sensitive emotion, particularly fear. It's gotten to a point where most people cannot even socialize in-person properly due to the fear. Everyone is hyper-aware of how they may be perceived, and everyone is constantly comparing themselves to others. In addition, fear about the state of the world has been on the rise for a while. There's 0 doubt in my mind that social media has been instrumental to this degredation.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      > buying stuff I was buying more generic stuff before, now I’m buying products that are tailor made for the very specific demographic I am. Win-win for me and for the entrepreneur targeting me. Who cares if Facebook also benefits? Who cares if that entrepreneur becomes a billionaire? I get a gadget/book/product that solves my specific problem. I just don’t see how I, or anyone, is the victim here. > socially better I have vastly more contact with family and old friends now. I’ve had career opportunities from Facebook messages with old pals. > people are going nuts due to social media I have no answer to this one, except that we clearly have to mature into this as a culture, the same way we’ve done with phasing out smoking and are currently phasing out alcohol. People are only getting sucked into social media vortexes because of bad mental habits they had going into it. Banning social media for under-16’s and changing attitudes towards it will certainly help a ton. If you use it as a connection tool, it’s amazingly valuable and helpful.
      - consteval 2y ago
        The inherent problem is that what you want out of social media and what it wants after you are at odds. It's not intended to be a social tool; it's intended to keep your eyes on the platform as much as possible. Their goal is to incite an addiction in you, not unlike gambling. Naturally we can take measures to try to prevent ourselves from developing an addiction. But ultimately the product itself will always attempt to undo those. In my view there's two camps of people: those who have to recognize this reality, and those that haven't. I have seen many family members literally destroy their lives and relationships due to the dopamine addiction they've developed with social media. They now only respond to blatant lies, conspiracies, racism, homophobia, and the most extreme of emotions. The trouble is this is a unique addiction, one that does not rely on a substance. I have no doubt I would have an easier time weaning them off of heroin than off of Facebook.
        FredPret 2y ago
        OK but that’s true for literally every relationship between a human and an organization. But you have to balance what you give and get so it remains mutually beneficial. You can choose the optimal level of your engagement, including none at all. Just like McDonalds doesn’t make people fat, Facebook doesn’t make people sad. I’m really sorry about your relatives getting sucked in, but wouldn’t they have fallen for some other thing if not Facebook? There is lots of shit out there on the radio, TV, books, cults.
  - gitaarik 2y ago
    I just don't understand that you like to get your product recommendations from a social media platform. So you're basically saying "yeah I'll put my social life on your platform so you can sell better stuff to me". I mean, when I'm browsing and searching on Amazon, yeah, it is handy that Amazon kind of analyzes what I am looking for and gives suggestions to what I might want from their catalogue. That seems logical to me. But I'm not gonna just give some company all my life's data and what I'm doing and not, and then let them decide what products I should get.

by fwn 2y ago

meiraleal 2y ago

the argumentative pattern of defending billionaires that exploit society reducing arguments to fallacies also comes up very regularly. A distraction.

FredPret 2y ago
My life is materially and socially richer because of Facebook and Instagram. I frequently get laser-focused targeted ads that actually help me discover products I love. Unsure how I’m getting exploited. Seems to me I’m better off all round and all I had to do was to be alive in 2024.
- stackghost 2y ago
  I have never in my life encountered an advertisement that I enjoyed. Nor have I ever encountered a product that I "loved". That is a completely bizarre and alien mindset to my own.
- consteval 2y ago
  I truly cannot fathom there are people who actually enjoy ultra-targeted ads. You understand the purpose of advertising is to attempt to manipulate you into spending money you wouldn't otherwise, right? Even if you enjoy the product, I too enjoyed smoking. A lot. I miss it actually. The point is that it's targeting your brain, and the monkey-brain of humanity in general, with the intention of siphoning money from you to them. Hyper-consumerism isn't a virtue, it's an addiction. Sincerely, I doubt you'd be worse off if you bought less stuff. Or, rather, considered your purchases in a less impulsive manner - buying from an ad is impulsive. I also struggle to understand how Facebook and Instagram have made anyone "socially richer". From where I'm standing, the proliferation of social media has greatly increased all the bad parts of human social nature. Competitiveness, insecurity, self-hatred. These platforms are designed for maximum engagement and as such they target your most sensitive emotion, particularly fear. It's gotten to a point where most people cannot even socialize in-person properly due to the fear. Everyone is hyper-aware of how they may be perceived, and everyone is constantly comparing themselves to others. In addition, fear about the state of the world has been on the rise for a while. There's 0 doubt in my mind that social media has been instrumental to this degredation.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    > buying stuff I was buying more generic stuff before, now I’m buying products that are tailor made for the very specific demographic I am. Win-win for me and for the entrepreneur targeting me. Who cares if Facebook also benefits? Who cares if that entrepreneur becomes a billionaire? I get a gadget/book/product that solves my specific problem. I just don’t see how I, or anyone, is the victim here. > socially better I have vastly more contact with family and old friends now. I’ve had career opportunities from Facebook messages with old pals. > people are going nuts due to social media I have no answer to this one, except that we clearly have to mature into this as a culture, the same way we’ve done with phasing out smoking and are currently phasing out alcohol. People are only getting sucked into social media vortexes because of bad mental habits they had going into it. Banning social media for under-16’s and changing attitudes towards it will certainly help a ton. If you use it as a connection tool, it’s amazingly valuable and helpful.
    - consteval 2y ago
      The inherent problem is that what you want out of social media and what it wants after you are at odds. It's not intended to be a social tool; it's intended to keep your eyes on the platform as much as possible. Their goal is to incite an addiction in you, not unlike gambling. Naturally we can take measures to try to prevent ourselves from developing an addiction. But ultimately the product itself will always attempt to undo those. In my view there's two camps of people: those who have to recognize this reality, and those that haven't. I have seen many family members literally destroy their lives and relationships due to the dopamine addiction they've developed with social media. They now only respond to blatant lies, conspiracies, racism, homophobia, and the most extreme of emotions. The trouble is this is a unique addiction, one that does not rely on a substance. I have no doubt I would have an easier time weaning them off of heroin than off of Facebook.
      - FredPret 2y ago
        OK but that’s true for literally every relationship between a human and an organization. But you have to balance what you give and get so it remains mutually beneficial. You can choose the optimal level of your engagement, including none at all. Just like McDonalds doesn’t make people fat, Facebook doesn’t make people sad. I’m really sorry about your relatives getting sucked in, but wouldn’t they have fallen for some other thing if not Facebook? There is lots of shit out there on the radio, TV, books, cults.
- gitaarik 2y ago
  I just don't understand that you like to get your product recommendations from a social media platform. So you're basically saying "yeah I'll put my social life on your platform so you can sell better stuff to me". I mean, when I'm browsing and searching on Amazon, yeah, it is handy that Amazon kind of analyzes what I am looking for and gives suggestions to what I might want from their catalogue. That seems logical to me. But I'm not gonna just give some company all my life's data and what I'm doing and not, and then let them decide what products I should get.