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The article doesn't mention but it seems pretty relevant, Google kicked them from having the Play store etc on their phones a little while back as a result of p

by Neil44 2y ago

The article doesn't mention but it seems pretty relevant, Google kicked them from having the Play store etc on their phones a little while back as a result of political pressure so there's really no reason for them to care about Android any more.

lawgimenez 2y ago
I own a Huawei tablet and yes there is no Play Store. The Huawei app store also will link you to several third party sketchy apk stores.
llm_nerd 2y ago
The article explicitly cites it in the second last paragraph. It was a bit more than political pressure, though: Huawei was added to the entity list and it would be a crime for US companies or citizens to do business with them.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  That’s clearly not the case though? A lot of Huawei gear is still installed and operating, as of today, in US telecom networks. Even the pentagon is contracting with many companies using Huawei gear.
  - GTP 2y ago
    I guess it is a crime from the date they were added to the list, but not a crime to keep using devices purchased earlier.
  - rickdeckard 2y ago
    Usage of their equipment is one thing, technology export to a blacklisted company is another. The telecom providers arguably put quite some pressure to maintain such a distinction, since they purchased and paid for said equipment. But for i.e. Google it would have been a crime to provide dedicated technology access (early-access code, Google Services, etc.) for Huawei to then integrate into their products.
    - fasa99 2y ago
      It's a real shame, such a phone would be a win-win as far as google's code containing all the NSA backdoors and such, and Huwai's hardware containing all the CSA's hardware backdoors and such. Imagine the cyberspace wars and battles being fought in that phone in your pocket.
  - shrubble 2y ago
    They’re not supposed to be running it! There were specific orders to remove Huawei from the telecom network (but yeah they were not followed) in 2019.
    - llm_nerd 2y ago
      It's a pretty big operation to purge all of that legacy gear, so the government made a multi-billion dollar fund to support the removal over time, and I believe gave them until 2025 to finish the purge. And even that isn't exhaustive: They can still operate it after the deadline, they'll just be restricted from various government subsidies and programs. So the government didn't flip a switch and tell them to make it disappear. They expected it to be a staggered, eventual process.
- addicted 2y ago
  I may be misremembering but I thought Google kicked them out even before, primarily because Huawei wanted to have only Huawei services and not Google services, which goes against Google’s terms.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago
    I don't think so. I bought a Huawei P30 Pro on release date (March 2019), it had (and still has) Google services. On May 2019 the US ban came, and from there on, new models had no Google services.
nashadelic 2y ago
Another great example of the US shooting itself in the foot. I guess if we get more competition, its better for the consumer.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  How does this hurt the US?
  - mainecoder 2y ago
    that's a good question, this hurts the US by enabling China to decouple itself from the US. Thus Once they make their own OS and have apps joining in their own app store, they can expand their markets and compete on OS. It may seem ridiculous now, but in 10 years it will be a serious OS and you can have all the apps in a .apk file that exist on android already working on their OS. Everytime the US introduces a restriction you are making them self sufficient(see how they are making their own Chips and own space station because of restriction on ISS) which in the long term is more sustainable for a country since they are not dependent on other countries and international order if things go really bad a self sufficient country is on top(see China is the sole manufacturing superpower by from the center of economic policy research).
    - exe34 2y ago
      tbh I like the idea of a multipolar world - a lot of our biggest achievements came as a result of the cold war. it also forces some redundancy into the mechanisms of running a technological world - a disaster that affects one of the two or three polities may well leave enough stuff working that civilisation doesn't need to collapse completely. a world where everything depends on everything else working correctly is a bit more fragile than I would like.
      - durumu 2y ago
        I think it's not clear which way that effect goes -- the Cold War was also the closest humanity has ever come to destroying itself. If all nations depend on each other, there's less nuclear conflict risk and less risk of war in general.
tananaev 2y ago
I disagree with "there's really no reason". The reason is so that app developers can easily recompile existing apps for their platform with some minimal changes. If their system is completely incompatible, then it's probably a much bigger effort to build apps from scratch and many companies might not do it.
- horsawlarway 2y ago
  This is my take as well. I see this as likely in the same vein as Google copying the Java APIs. The similarity is important because of the compatibility it brings. So there's very much still an incentive to care about what Android does, and what API interfaces it exposes (at least in the transitional period). Whether that will still be true a decade or two from now is a different question.
- Saul_C 2y ago
  In fact, due to the promotion of the Communist Party of China, almost all Chinese companies will adapt to Huawei's mobile phone system.
mrweasel 2y ago
At this point the Play Store is probably more valuable than Android for phone makers. It doesn't matter that Huawei has a new operating system, if it has no apps, or just lack the ones people really need. Depending on the country that's going to be some mobile payment options, banking apps, social media or government ID. If even one of those are missing, people will pick another brand, something with the Play Store.
- horsawlarway 2y ago
  I mean - developers for your platform have always been a huge driver (something something developers, developers, developers - Balmer). But I think it's a mistake to assume that the Play Store is equivalent to your developer footprint for a platform. Google has been fairly insidious about integrating OS level APIs with the Play Store, so that's blurred the line a bit here - but if the OS is otherwise "Android-like" enough that it's just a matter of choosing a different target in your build and linking to different binaries... it'll be very easy to port over the developer base that's interested. Seems like Harmony is doing exactly that, and already has a large swath of companies that are planning to support the OS - so while some of that is likely because of government influence in this case... it's not required (ex - I'm thinking of Google and the whole lawsuit with Oracle around the Java APIs)
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    It doesn't matter that you have 90% of all developers supporting your platform, if the final 10% is responsible for the must have apps. Huawei had a 4% market share last year. Is that going to be enough for something like MobilePay in Scandinavia to ensure that they are present on a platform, from a company and country they don't entirely trust? Without the MobilePay app, the number of people who'd buy the phones drop to almost zero. The same happens if Danes can't use their government ID on the phones, sales drops to almost zero, because the device just lost a major feature. I don't think it matters that Huawei has a large swath of companies ready to support their OS, it has to be all of them (or at least the right ones). They might pull it off and get every one on board, but the investment has to be really small to justify the work for such a small user base.

by Neil44 2y ago

lawgimenez 2y ago

I own a Huawei tablet and yes there is no Play Store. The Huawei app store also will link you to several third party sketchy apk stores.

llm_nerd 2y ago

The article explicitly cites it in the second last paragraph. It was a bit more than political pressure, though: Huawei was added to the entity list and it would be a crime for US companies or citizens to do business with them.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
That’s clearly not the case though? A lot of Huawei gear is still installed and operating, as of today, in US telecom networks. Even the pentagon is contracting with many companies using Huawei gear.
- GTP 2y ago
  I guess it is a crime from the date they were added to the list, but not a crime to keep using devices purchased earlier.
- rickdeckard 2y ago
  Usage of their equipment is one thing, technology export to a blacklisted company is another. The telecom providers arguably put quite some pressure to maintain such a distinction, since they purchased and paid for said equipment. But for i.e. Google it would have been a crime to provide dedicated technology access (early-access code, Google Services, etc.) for Huawei to then integrate into their products.
  - fasa99 2y ago
    It's a real shame, such a phone would be a win-win as far as google's code containing all the NSA backdoors and such, and Huwai's hardware containing all the CSA's hardware backdoors and such. Imagine the cyberspace wars and battles being fought in that phone in your pocket.
- shrubble 2y ago
  They’re not supposed to be running it! There were specific orders to remove Huawei from the telecom network (but yeah they were not followed) in 2019.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    It's a pretty big operation to purge all of that legacy gear, so the government made a multi-billion dollar fund to support the removal over time, and I believe gave them until 2025 to finish the purge. And even that isn't exhaustive: They can still operate it after the deadline, they'll just be restricted from various government subsidies and programs. So the government didn't flip a switch and tell them to make it disappear. They expected it to be a staggered, eventual process.
addicted 2y ago
I may be misremembering but I thought Google kicked them out even before, primarily because Huawei wanted to have only Huawei services and not Google services, which goes against Google’s terms.
- Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago
  I don't think so. I bought a Huawei P30 Pro on release date (March 2019), it had (and still has) Google services. On May 2019 the US ban came, and from there on, new models had no Google services.

nashadelic 2y ago

Another great example of the US shooting itself in the foot. I guess if we get more competition, its better for the consumer.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
How does this hurt the US?
- mainecoder 2y ago
  that's a good question, this hurts the US by enabling China to decouple itself from the US. Thus Once they make their own OS and have apps joining in their own app store, they can expand their markets and compete on OS. It may seem ridiculous now, but in 10 years it will be a serious OS and you can have all the apps in a .apk file that exist on android already working on their OS. Everytime the US introduces a restriction you are making them self sufficient(see how they are making their own Chips and own space station because of restriction on ISS) which in the long term is more sustainable for a country since they are not dependent on other countries and international order if things go really bad a self sufficient country is on top(see China is the sole manufacturing superpower by from the center of economic policy research).
  - exe34 2y ago
    tbh I like the idea of a multipolar world - a lot of our biggest achievements came as a result of the cold war. it also forces some redundancy into the mechanisms of running a technological world - a disaster that affects one of the two or three polities may well leave enough stuff working that civilisation doesn't need to collapse completely. a world where everything depends on everything else working correctly is a bit more fragile than I would like.
    - durumu 2y ago
      I think it's not clear which way that effect goes -- the Cold War was also the closest humanity has ever come to destroying itself. If all nations depend on each other, there's less nuclear conflict risk and less risk of war in general.

tananaev 2y ago

I disagree with "there's really no reason". The reason is so that app developers can easily recompile existing apps for their platform with some minimal changes. If their system is completely incompatible, then it's probably a much bigger effort to build apps from scratch and many companies might not do it.

horsawlarway 2y ago
This is my take as well. I see this as likely in the same vein as Google copying the Java APIs. The similarity is important because of the compatibility it brings. So there's very much still an incentive to care about what Android does, and what API interfaces it exposes (at least in the transitional period). Whether that will still be true a decade or two from now is a different question.
Saul_C 2y ago
In fact, due to the promotion of the Communist Party of China, almost all Chinese companies will adapt to Huawei's mobile phone system.

mrweasel 2y ago

At this point the Play Store is probably more valuable than Android for phone makers. It doesn't matter that Huawei has a new operating system, if it has no apps, or just lack the ones people really need. Depending on the country that's going to be some mobile payment options, banking apps, social media or government ID. If even one of those are missing, people will pick another brand, something with the Play Store.

horsawlarway 2y ago
I mean - developers for your platform have always been a huge driver (something something developers, developers, developers - Balmer). But I think it's a mistake to assume that the Play Store is equivalent to your developer footprint for a platform. Google has been fairly insidious about integrating OS level APIs with the Play Store, so that's blurred the line a bit here - but if the OS is otherwise "Android-like" enough that it's just a matter of choosing a different target in your build and linking to different binaries... it'll be very easy to port over the developer base that's interested. Seems like Harmony is doing exactly that, and already has a large swath of companies that are planning to support the OS - so while some of that is likely because of government influence in this case... it's not required (ex - I'm thinking of Google and the whole lawsuit with Oracle around the Java APIs)
- mrweasel 2y ago
  It doesn't matter that you have 90% of all developers supporting your platform, if the final 10% is responsible for the must have apps. Huawei had a 4% market share last year. Is that going to be enough for something like MobilePay in Scandinavia to ensure that they are present on a platform, from a company and country they don't entirely trust? Without the MobilePay app, the number of people who'd buy the phones drop to almost zero. The same happens if Danes can't use their government ID on the phones, sales drops to almost zero, because the device just lost a major feature. I don't think it matters that Huawei has a large swath of companies ready to support their OS, it has to be all of them (or at least the right ones). They might pull it off and get every one on board, but the investment has to be really small to justify the work for such a small user base.