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As Paracelsus already wrote, "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." (https://en.wikipedia

by rob74 2y ago

As Paracelsus already wrote, "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison) That might be one of the reasons why predictive toxicology is hard?

sandworm101 2y ago
All chemicals, not all things. Things that physically disrupt life systems are not poisonous despite being deadly. Concrete can kill but isn't really a poison. Drink enough of it and it will physically disrupt your digestive tract. Inject it into the space between your brain and skull and it will kill. But so too will cheese. Whether something is a poison also depends on circumstance. If one eats dry ice (a thing that does happen in the real world) then one is not being "positioned" by CO2. Your ruptured stomach is a physical injury. But a buildup of CO2 in the blood, that is CO2 as a poison. Water is an interesting example. Strictly speaking, it does not act chemically. It disrupts chemistry. It physically prevents other chemicals from acting. But water always ends up being a special case.
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  Well, pure water causes physical damage to the cells by changing osmotic pressure (now, is that distinct from toxicity in your view?).
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    Or asbestos, which causes physical damage to cells which in turn may case cancer that leads to death. There are no bright rules. As a practical matter, I personally would draw the line between physical actions that are perceptible on a human scale (concrete blocking up the digestive tract, water blocking the lungs of drowning people) and "poisons" that operate on a smaller scale that we cannot see. Such an approach would include asbestos as a poison despite it doing only physical damage.
- nick__m 2y ago
  All chemicals, not all things. While you have a point on physical injury, all things are chemicals and your water example is really bad. Dissolution and ions transport are chemicals process, so are dilution and concentration.

by rob74 2y ago

sandworm101 2y ago

All chemicals, not all things. Things that physically disrupt life systems are not poisonous despite being deadly. Concrete can kill but isn't really a poison. Drink enough of it and it will physically disrupt your digestive tract. Inject it into the space between your brain and skull and it will kill. But so too will cheese. Whether something is a poison also depends on circumstance. If one eats dry ice (a thing that does happen in the real world) then one is not being "positioned" by CO2. Your ruptured stomach is a physical injury. But a buildup of CO2 in the blood, that is CO2 as a poison. Water is an interesting example. Strictly speaking, it does not act chemically. It disrupts chemistry. It physically prevents other chemicals from acting. But water always ends up being a special case.

admissionsguy 2y ago
Well, pure water causes physical damage to the cells by changing osmotic pressure (now, is that distinct from toxicity in your view?).
- sandworm101 2y ago
  Or asbestos, which causes physical damage to cells which in turn may case cancer that leads to death. There are no bright rules. As a practical matter, I personally would draw the line between physical actions that are perceptible on a human scale (concrete blocking up the digestive tract, water blocking the lungs of drowning people) and "poisons" that operate on a smaller scale that we cannot see. Such an approach would include asbestos as a poison despite it doing only physical damage.
nick__m 2y ago
All chemicals, not all things. While you have a point on physical injury, all things are chemicals and your water example is really bad. Dissolution and ions transport are chemicals process, so are dilution and concentration.