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You are being snarky. GPs point is literally that the main benefits of a traffic circle - safety and uninterrupted flow - are negatives by how the roundabout is

You are being snarky. GPs point is literally that the main benefits of a traffic circle - safety and uninterrupted flow - are negatives by how the roundabout is shared with bikes… thus it could have been a different style of intersection if the plan was to share with bikes.

DemocracyFTW2 2y ago
I'm being snarky because I believe that giving traffic other than cars priority at crossings and in roundabouts is the way to go. I live on a busy city street; traffic has become worse and worse and it has become ever more difficult to cross the street. This has in recent years been alleviated by two means: some unmarked crossings with a traffic island between the lanes, meaning now you have a relatively safe spot that allows you to cross while paying attention to one direction at a time. The other is a zebra crossing where cars have to stop for crossing pedestrians. The latter works very well and I much prefer it to the traffic islands and to the traffic lights that are further down the street. And yes the cars (and cyclists) have to stop for pedestrians, but that is intentional: yield to the weaker one. Besides traffic has become so congested overall that it's not like there's any measurable time lost for the car driver, and who ever accounted for the endless waiting times that pedestrians have to endure at traffic light crossings when walking the city? In any event the daily traffic jam is definitely not caused by bicycles or pedestrians, with or without priority given to them—it is 100% caused by cars.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Hard disagree, even as a pedestrian it doesn't make sense to have right-of-way over cars. They de facto have it anyway since I'm not suicidal. It's annoying as hell when cars stop for me, like no just go you'll be past me by the time I take one step you're wasting your own time by stopping. And when there's a continuous stream of cars and no window to cross batching everyone at signaled intersections is more efficient and safer for everyone. Everyone stops at reds and you can physically see them stopped. A zebra crossing on a busy street just takes one person not seeing you.
  - DemocracyFTW2 2y ago
    When you go to Poland they have zebra crossings all over the place, they favor them over pedestrian traffic lights. The entire country disagrees with you. But I agree that you have to exert some care and judgement when using a zebra crossing. You must look and be prepared for the (in my experience, in Germany) occasional driver who speeds instead of stopping. I cannot entirely share your warm affections for traffic lights, for that I've had too many perilous events where entitled reckless drivers think they can drive like assholes with impunity. At least where I live pedestrians at intersections share their green phase with the cars in the same direction and the cars turning right and left, meaning you potentially have a green light but a steady stream of cars coming from left behind you (they mostly are slow having stopped anyway, but the do crawl up from behind) and left front of you (those in some intersection tend to come with a certain speed they picked up when crossing). At least in areas where people live pedestrians must always have, in principle, right of way. As my driving teacher told me, you as a driver have to look both ways and prepared; yes, a pedestrian is not allowed to cross here, but then you as a driver are not allow to run over the guy either.

DemocracyFTW2 2y ago

I'm being snarky because I believe that giving traffic other than cars priority at crossings and in roundabouts is the way to go. I live on a busy city street; traffic has become worse and worse and it has become ever more difficult to cross the street. This has in recent years been alleviated by two means: some unmarked crossings with a traffic island between the lanes, meaning now you have a relatively safe spot that allows you to cross while paying attention to one direction at a time. The other is a zebra crossing where cars have to stop for crossing pedestrians. The latter works very well and I much prefer it to the traffic islands and to the traffic lights that are further down the street. And yes the cars (and cyclists) have to stop for pedestrians, but that is intentional: yield to the weaker one. Besides traffic has become so congested overall that it's not like there's any measurable time lost for the car driver, and who ever accounted for the endless waiting times that pedestrians have to endure at traffic light crossings when walking the city? In any event the daily traffic jam is definitely not caused by bicycles or pedestrians, with or without priority given to them—it is 100% caused by cars.

Spivak 2y ago
Hard disagree, even as a pedestrian it doesn't make sense to have right-of-way over cars. They de facto have it anyway since I'm not suicidal. It's annoying as hell when cars stop for me, like no just go you'll be past me by the time I take one step you're wasting your own time by stopping. And when there's a continuous stream of cars and no window to cross batching everyone at signaled intersections is more efficient and safer for everyone. Everyone stops at reds and you can physically see them stopped. A zebra crossing on a busy street just takes one person not seeing you.
- DemocracyFTW2 2y ago
  When you go to Poland they have zebra crossings all over the place, they favor them over pedestrian traffic lights. The entire country disagrees with you. But I agree that you have to exert some care and judgement when using a zebra crossing. You must look and be prepared for the (in my experience, in Germany) occasional driver who speeds instead of stopping. I cannot entirely share your warm affections for traffic lights, for that I've had too many perilous events where entitled reckless drivers think they can drive like assholes with impunity. At least where I live pedestrians at intersections share their green phase with the cars in the same direction and the cars turning right and left, meaning you potentially have a green light but a steady stream of cars coming from left behind you (they mostly are slow having stopped anyway, but the do crawl up from behind) and left front of you (those in some intersection tend to come with a certain speed they picked up when crossing). At least in areas where people live pedestrians must always have, in principle, right of way. As my driving teacher told me, you as a driver have to look both ways and prepared; yes, a pedestrian is not allowed to cross here, but then you as a driver are not allow to run over the guy either.