3 ms·

Just give internet access directly. Or do not offer internet access at all. People carry their own already-connected devices anyway.

by snvzz 2y ago

gruez 2y ago
What if legal wants to show a TOS page, or you want finer grained authentication than a shared key? >Or do not offer internet access at all. People carry their own already-connected devices anyway. Travelers don't typically have gigabytes of bandwidth to spare. I for one like having unmetered internet access even when there's theoretically internet access available through roaming (absurdly expensive) or esims (expensive)
- snvzz 2y ago
  >What if legal wants to show a TOS page? The reality is that nobody wants to bother with any of that. Either just connect me to the internet without extra steps, or don't at all. Don't waste my time.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >The reality is that nobody wants to bother with any of that. I don't either, but for IT departments in large organizations, ignoring the legal department isn't an option.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Gues they just won't provide access then. Oh, what's that? There's a reason they need to provide access? Well, too bad the IT standards people invented a way to make sure we didn't interfere!
  - notpushkin 2y ago
    I appreciate the sentiment, but having a shitty Wi-Fi is better than none at all IMO.
- stephenr 2y ago
  > or you want finer grained authentication than a shared key? Configure your access points to use RADIUS or SAML for auth?
  - gruez 2y ago
    Is WPA enterprise authentication still a dumpster fire? Last time I set it up it was still a hassle because you had to import CAs and manually choose the authentication protocol. Definitely not a good experience for someone who's stopping by a cafe for 30min and wants wifi.
    - stephenr 2y ago
      In your coffee shop-like scenario, what benefit does a captive portal on anonymous Wifi offer to either the customer or the coffee shop, over regular Wifi authentication, and a sign on the wall that says "wifi username/passowrd is..." As for importing a private CA. Use a certificate trusted by a public CA and you won't have this problem?
      - gruez 2y ago
        >In your coffee shop-like scenario, what benefit does a captive portal on anonymous Wifi offer to either the customer or the coffee shop, over regular Wifi authentication, and a sign on the wall that says "wifi username/passowrd is..." From an access control perspective, it probably doesn't matter much for a coffee shop, but matters more for something for a hotel where you want to limit to certain guests only (eg. ones with room or loyalty program members) From a legal perspective, having an interstitial might provide cover for when a baddie uses the connection to order drugs or whatever. IANAL and I'm not sure whether it's actually needed or not, but most companies rather not risk it. Moreover it's unlikely that no jurisdictions require it, so you'd still support for it. >As for importing a private CA. Use a certificate trusted by a public CA and you won't have this problem? No idea. Last time I had to use WPA enterprise, the organization providing the connection isn't exactly small and couldn't afford a certificate, but still required me to import a CA. That makes me think it might be an inherent issue with WPA enterprise.
leptons 2y ago
Captive portals are used for many, many things that aren't just internet access gateways. Many IoT devices use them to enter wifi credentials so the device can connect to the wifi router. One of my projects is an IoT device with a custom web interface that can be used from a cellphone when there are no nearby wifi routers for the IoT device and phone to connect to - the phone connects directly to the IoT device and gets the custom device control interface.
somerandomqaguy 2y ago
16% of Canadians in 2022 didn't have a data plan on their phone, according to Statistics Canada. Roughly 6 million Canadians or so. So not everyone. Actually a decent number of people that don't.
- sulandor 2y ago
  seems easy to confuse % of plans with % of ppl. probably a lot of obscure use-cases in there
Gud 2y ago
Hotels absolutely don’t want to provide open access to all for obvious reasons. Although I have a “global unlimited” business SIM, I find it rarely works all that great. Getting a local SIM is not always an option.

Just give internet access directly. Or do not offer internet access at all. People carry their own already-connected devices anyway.

by snvzz 2y ago

Just give internet access directly. Or do not offer internet access at all. People carry their own already-connected devices anyway.

gruez 2y ago

What if legal wants to show a TOS page, or you want finer grained authentication than a shared key? >Or do not offer internet access at all. People carry their own already-connected devices anyway. Travelers don't typically have gigabytes of bandwidth to spare. I for one like having unmetered internet access even when there's theoretically internet access available through roaming (absurdly expensive) or esims (expensive)

snvzz 2y ago
>What if legal wants to show a TOS page? The reality is that nobody wants to bother with any of that. Either just connect me to the internet without extra steps, or don't at all. Don't waste my time.
- gruez 2y ago
  >The reality is that nobody wants to bother with any of that. I don't either, but for IT departments in large organizations, ignoring the legal department isn't an option.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Gues they just won't provide access then. Oh, what's that? There's a reason they need to provide access? Well, too bad the IT standards people invented a way to make sure we didn't interfere!
- notpushkin 2y ago
  I appreciate the sentiment, but having a shitty Wi-Fi is better than none at all IMO.
stephenr 2y ago
> or you want finer grained authentication than a shared key? Configure your access points to use RADIUS or SAML for auth?
- gruez 2y ago
  Is WPA enterprise authentication still a dumpster fire? Last time I set it up it was still a hassle because you had to import CAs and manually choose the authentication protocol. Definitely not a good experience for someone who's stopping by a cafe for 30min and wants wifi.
  - stephenr 2y ago
    In your coffee shop-like scenario, what benefit does a captive portal on anonymous Wifi offer to either the customer or the coffee shop, over regular Wifi authentication, and a sign on the wall that says "wifi username/passowrd is..." As for importing a private CA. Use a certificate trusted by a public CA and you won't have this problem?
    - gruez 2y ago
      >In your coffee shop-like scenario, what benefit does a captive portal on anonymous Wifi offer to either the customer or the coffee shop, over regular Wifi authentication, and a sign on the wall that says "wifi username/passowrd is..." From an access control perspective, it probably doesn't matter much for a coffee shop, but matters more for something for a hotel where you want to limit to certain guests only (eg. ones with room or loyalty program members) From a legal perspective, having an interstitial might provide cover for when a baddie uses the connection to order drugs or whatever. IANAL and I'm not sure whether it's actually needed or not, but most companies rather not risk it. Moreover it's unlikely that no jurisdictions require it, so you'd still support for it. >As for importing a private CA. Use a certificate trusted by a public CA and you won't have this problem? No idea. Last time I had to use WPA enterprise, the organization providing the connection isn't exactly small and couldn't afford a certificate, but still required me to import a CA. That makes me think it might be an inherent issue with WPA enterprise.

leptons 2y ago

Captive portals are used for many, many things that aren't just internet access gateways. Many IoT devices use them to enter wifi credentials so the device can connect to the wifi router. One of my projects is an IoT device with a custom web interface that can be used from a cellphone when there are no nearby wifi routers for the IoT device and phone to connect to - the phone connects directly to the IoT device and gets the custom device control interface.

somerandomqaguy 2y ago

16% of Canadians in 2022 didn't have a data plan on their phone, according to Statistics Canada. Roughly 6 million Canadians or so. So not everyone. Actually a decent number of people that don't.

sulandor 2y ago
seems easy to confuse % of plans with % of ppl. probably a lot of obscure use-cases in there

Gud 2y ago

Hotels absolutely don’t want to provide open access to all for obvious reasons. Although I have a “global unlimited” business SIM, I find it rarely works all that great. Getting a local SIM is not always an option.