5 ms·

> That freedom means giving enemies unfettered access to our most sensitive systems? Do you imply that Linux is a technology controlled by Western state actors

> That freedom means giving enemies unfettered access to our most sensitive systems? Do you imply that Linux is a technology controlled by Western state actors? > I would like to remind you of the recent XZ utils backdoor into SSH contributed by a less than friendly nation state. Would you support a backdoor contributed by a friendly nation state?

jiggawatts 2y ago
I didn't say "western"! Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. I can deploy an Azure or AWS cloud server right now in any one of several dozen nations, including Malaysia, Indonesia, Chile, Qatar, Israel, and Mexico. I can't deploy VMs in Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea. Not just because of sanctions, but because they don't allow me to. It's illegal for me -- I don't even need to specify which country I am in, it doesn't matter -- to deploy pretty much anything in those nations, by their own laws. (Similarly, I can't buy property, start a business, buy shares directly, etc, etc...) Have a look at the requirements to deploy something into China: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-checklist https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-check... and https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-sovereignty-and-regulations https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-sover... Nothing like this is needed for any other cloud region. I can just pick "the rest of the planet" from a drop-down list at will. So why should we let "the other side" of the planet gain benefits from our collective works, if they slam the door in our face in response?
- an_guy 2y ago
  > Not just because of sanctions, but because they don't allow me to. It's illegal for me No it's because aws/azure failed to follow local Russian laws + sanctions imposed by US. If you need Russian vps, you can contact Russian providers.
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    Microsoft seems to have no trouble “following local laws” in every other country they’re present in. What’s different about the local laws in Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea?
    - an_guy 2y ago
      Sanctions. Complying with local law or operating in those countries might break sanctions.
      - jiggawatts 2y ago
        China is not sanctioned.
        Wytwwww 2y ago
        Yes but the cost of doing business in China can outweigh most potential gains (e.g. Google).
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > Microsoft seems to have no trouble “following local laws” in every other country they’re present in. Except in EU when it comes to GDPR and data processing laws. But they pay well. /s
- protomolecule 2y ago
  >Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. BRICS meeting is currently happening in Russia and the leaders who gathered there represent more than a half of world's population: "Putin returns to world stage hosting 36 leaders at Brics summit in Russia"[0]. >I can't deploy VMs in Russia Really? You are welcome to click "Start your trial period" at Yandex Cloud. [1] >Similarly, I can't buy property, start a business, buy shares directly Of course you can. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/22/putin-brics-summit-russia-china-india-iran-kazan https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/22/putin-brics... [1] https://yandex.cloud/en/ https://yandex.cloud/en/
- ogurechny 2y ago
  > Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two Someone who is so dependent on media images that he declares them unquestionable truths in advance is probably unqualified to reason about propaganda.
  - Wytwwww 2y ago
    It is self evident, though? Russia, NK and Iran at least.. I wouldn't necessarily say that China is technically on Russia's side. Not to such a degree that most Western countries are on Ukraine's side. They even comply with some sanctions and AFAIK aren't actually sending weapons to Russia.
    - ogurechny 2y ago
      O swallowers of voids, Newspaper-reading ones! https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/7790/ https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/... https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/9811/ https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/...
- walleeee 2y ago
  > Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. Something is happening in Kazan as we speak. In attendance are many among your "everybody else", many of whom have no great love for any of these four. It is worth asking why this might be.
- account42 2y ago
  > Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. Maybe you should ask the rest of the world before making such a statement.
Wytwwww 2y ago
> Linux is a technology controlled by Western state actors? Not directly, but sort of? Isn't this specific case an actual example of that? > Would you support a backdoor contributed by a friendly nation state The theoretical risk of that somewhat lower. i.e. government actors in friendly nation states could face somewhat serious consequences if they try that and it backfires. Russian government would face no risk or consequences whatsoever if they conspired to murder someone or imprison them on trumped up charges.

jiggawatts 2y ago

I didn't say "western"! Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. I can deploy an Azure or AWS cloud server right now in any one of several dozen nations, including Malaysia, Indonesia, Chile, Qatar, Israel, and Mexico. I can't deploy VMs in Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea. Not just because of sanctions, but because they don't allow me to. It's illegal for me -- I don't even need to specify which country I am in, it doesn't matter -- to deploy pretty much anything in those nations, by their own laws. (Similarly, I can't buy property, start a business, buy shares directly, etc, etc...) Have a look at the requirements to deploy something into China: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-checklist https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-check... and https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-sovereignty-and-regulations https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/overview-sover... Nothing like this is needed for any other cloud region. I can just pick "the rest of the planet" from a drop-down list at will. So why should we let "the other side" of the planet gain benefits from our collective works, if they slam the door in our face in response?

an_guy 2y ago
> Not just because of sanctions, but because they don't allow me to. It's illegal for me No it's because aws/azure failed to follow local Russian laws + sanctions imposed by US. If you need Russian vps, you can contact Russian providers.
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  Microsoft seems to have no trouble “following local laws” in every other country they’re present in. What’s different about the local laws in Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea?
  - an_guy 2y ago
    Sanctions. Complying with local law or operating in those countries might break sanctions.
    - jiggawatts 2y ago
      China is not sanctioned.
      - Wytwwww 2y ago
        Yes but the cost of doing business in China can outweigh most potential gains (e.g. Google).
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > Microsoft seems to have no trouble “following local laws” in every other country they’re present in. Except in EU when it comes to GDPR and data processing laws. But they pay well. /s
protomolecule 2y ago
>Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. BRICS meeting is currently happening in Russia and the leaders who gathered there represent more than a half of world's population: "Putin returns to world stage hosting 36 leaders at Brics summit in Russia"[0]. >I can't deploy VMs in Russia Really? You are welcome to click "Start your trial period" at Yandex Cloud. [1] >Similarly, I can't buy property, start a business, buy shares directly Of course you can. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/22/putin-brics-summit-russia-china-india-iran-kazan https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/22/putin-brics... [1] https://yandex.cloud/en/ https://yandex.cloud/en/
ogurechny 2y ago
> Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two Someone who is so dependent on media images that he declares them unquestionable truths in advance is probably unqualified to reason about propaganda.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  It is self evident, though? Russia, NK and Iran at least.. I wouldn't necessarily say that China is technically on Russia's side. Not to such a degree that most Western countries are on Ukraine's side. They even comply with some sanctions and AFAIK aren't actually sending weapons to Russia.
  - ogurechny 2y ago
    O swallowers of voids, Newspaper-reading ones! https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/7790/ https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/... https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/9811/ https://ruverses.com/marina-tsvetaeva/readers-of-newspapers/...
walleeee 2y ago
> Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. Something is happening in Kazan as we speak. In attendance are many among your "everybody else", many of whom have no great love for any of these four. It is worth asking why this might be.
account42 2y ago
> Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the world has been split in two: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea... and everybody else. Maybe you should ask the rest of the world before making such a statement.

Wytwwww 2y ago

> Linux is a technology controlled by Western state actors? Not directly, but sort of? Isn't this specific case an actual example of that? > Would you support a backdoor contributed by a friendly nation state The theoretical risk of that somewhat lower. i.e. government actors in friendly nation states could face somewhat serious consequences if they try that and it backfires. Russian government would face no risk or consequences whatsoever if they conspired to murder someone or imprison them on trumped up charges.