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export compliance is a total absolute tire fire, its full of non-sensical policy, and contrary opinions, and the more countries your product goes thru, the wors
by Aloha 2y ago
export compliance is a total absolute tire fire, its full of non-sensical policy, and contrary opinions, and the more countries your product goes thru, the worse it gets.
Have a part made in Japan, integrated into a product in the states but sold by someone in the UK to in France? you'll have to comply with Japan, US and UK laws.
Neat fact, the UK considers the Cisco C9200 switch to be a munition, because it has ipsec.
- ArchOversight 2y agoIt's not only the UK that considers cryptography to be a munition. It is also classified as munitions in the US: > Encryption items specifically designed, developed, configured, adapted or modified for military applications (including command, control and intelligence applications) are controlled by the Department of State on the United States Munitions List. It was part of the whole crypto wars, and the lawsuit brought by Bernstein vs the United States. See more: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...
- Aloha 2y agoThe Cisco C9200 is not considered a munition in the states.
- ycombinatrix 2y agoHave you tried exporting it?
- Aloha 2y agoYes.
- theGeatZhopa 2y agoHave you succeeded? :)
- Aloha 2y agoYes, we export it to everywhere, without permits.
- jjk166 2y agoRestricted by ITAR != munition.
- bigfatkitten 2y agoNo it's not, and this fact is quite clearly spelled out in the material you quoted. The key phrase here is "specifically designed". We're talking about a commercial off the shelf router, not a piece of equipment designed for military applications. It falls squarely within Category 5 Part 2 of the EAR (which covers IT equipment generally), and so is explicitly excluded from the USML.
- tonetegeatinst 2y agoChallenge is to find the cheapest switch and router than meets the export law of weapons in the UK....bet it would be a cheap openwrt device.
- kube-system 2y agoYou might disagree with tech export controls, but they are entirely calculated and purposeful. The friction they cause is intentional.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoExport controls in the parent example are intended to cause friction between people in the UK and US? Really?
- kube-system 2y agoYes, anyone exporting anywhere needs to follow compliance rules, because the point is to ensure that all exporters are in compliance. Consider the OP's example: > Have a part made in Japan, integrated into a product in the states but sold by someone in the UK to in France? you'll have to comply with Japan, US and UK laws. The reason all countries tediously ensure their laws are being followed is because, if they weren't, there'd be an obvious legal loophole: you could simply proxy export items to a country with different export restrictions -- and then all export restrictions would be worthless.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoHaving strict, but identical restrictions would already accomplish that. Having strict, slightly differing restrictions doesn’t seem to add anything extra of value? It’s pure downsides.
- saagarjha 2y agoThese are different counties. They each decide their own policies on exports.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoRegardless, the end result is seemingly causing a huge amount of paperwork and frustration, because there are so many small differences.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoDistribution is where the shenanigans happen. In New York, the Mob likes to control trucking and rail transport, because it allows them to get their fingers into anyone’s business. Very easy to have a truck make a 20-minute detour into a hidden depot, where the contents are “inspected.” I know folks that used to work for those types of outfits, and the stories I’ve heard, tell me that the wiseguys are very smart. They know how to get around pretty much any tracking and verification system. The more people have their hands on the product, the more likely it is to “fall off the truck.”
- euroderf 2y agoThen they probably also know when to keep their mitts off something that would definitely attract FBI attention. Or have I been watching too many cop shows ?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoProbably, but there’s a lot of money to be made, and it’s likely a risk they may be willing to take. I was just hearing one of those stories, yesterday, about how someone figured out how to grab bespoke suits. The prescription drug industry is a good (bad?) example. Drug production is heavily regulated, as is final distribution (pharmacists), but intermediate distribution (bulk freight), is not. That’s where a lot of prescription medicine falls off trucks.