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> I think there's a genuine conversation to be had about whether there even is such a thing as "hate speech." It may be fuzzy on the far edges, but any speech

by danans 2y ago

> I think there's a genuine conversation to be had about whether there even is such a thing as "hate speech." It may be fuzzy on the far edges, but any speech that calls for the elimination, marginalizes, dehumanizes or denies human or civil rights of a group of people is right in the heart of the meaning of hate speech. That definition still leaves huge amounts of space for satire, comedy, political and other forms of protected speech, even "offensive speech".

samatman 2y ago
> the elimination Yep, that's bad alright. > marginalizes, dehumanizes This is the part which means anything that authorities or other powerful groups need it to.
skeeter2020 2y ago
>> the elimination, marginalizes, dehumanizes or denies human or civil rights but you've already lumped together a huge range of behaviours and impacts. Elimination? OK, we can probably broadly define that, but I just heard news reports with quotes of Israelis calling for the elimination of Hamas, and Iran the elimination of Israel. How do we handle that? marginalized? as defined by who? What about marginalizing undesirable behaviours or speech? What does "dehumanize" mean? Who's definition of human or civil rights?
- danans 2y ago
  > Elimination? OK, we can probably broadly define that, but I just heard news reports with quotes of Israelis calling for the elimination of Hamas, and Iran the elimination of Israel. How do we handle that? marginalized? as defined by who? I'd call both of them hate speech without qualification. But between countries, there's no legal system that would rule on speech (only actions, like the ICJ tries to adjudicate). > What about marginalizing undesirable behaviours or speech? What is the example of undesirable behavior being undertaken by a group that would warrant their marginalization as a group? I'm having a hard time finding an example of that. Calling out a group of racists or bigots (based on their words) for what they are isn't marginalization. > What does "dehumanize" mean? This has a very straightforward definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize > Who's definition of human or civil rights? In the US context, this is also well defined: https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/civil-rights-overview/what-are-civil-rights.html https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/civil-rights-overview/wh...
  - hcurtiss 2y ago
    Those definitions are anything but straightforward.

by danans 2y ago

samatman 2y ago

> the elimination Yep, that's bad alright. > marginalizes, dehumanizes This is the part which means anything that authorities or other powerful groups need it to.

skeeter2020 2y ago

>> the elimination, marginalizes, dehumanizes or denies human or civil rights but you've already lumped together a huge range of behaviours and impacts. Elimination? OK, we can probably broadly define that, but I just heard news reports with quotes of Israelis calling for the elimination of Hamas, and Iran the elimination of Israel. How do we handle that? marginalized? as defined by who? What about marginalizing undesirable behaviours or speech? What does "dehumanize" mean? Who's definition of human or civil rights?

danans 2y ago
> Elimination? OK, we can probably broadly define that, but I just heard news reports with quotes of Israelis calling for the elimination of Hamas, and Iran the elimination of Israel. How do we handle that? marginalized? as defined by who? I'd call both of them hate speech without qualification. But between countries, there's no legal system that would rule on speech (only actions, like the ICJ tries to adjudicate). > What about marginalizing undesirable behaviours or speech? What is the example of undesirable behavior being undertaken by a group that would warrant their marginalization as a group? I'm having a hard time finding an example of that. Calling out a group of racists or bigots (based on their words) for what they are isn't marginalization. > What does "dehumanize" mean? This has a very straightforward definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize > Who's definition of human or civil rights? In the US context, this is also well defined: https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/civil-rights-overview/what-are-civil-rights.html https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/civil-rights-overview/wh...
- hcurtiss 2y ago
  Those definitions are anything but straightforward.