3 ms·

But, had msft executed, there definitely is room for competitors for both dfp and dfa. Many pubs seem to want something, anything besides dfp. Plus the rise o

by earl 14y ago

But, had msft executed, there definitely is room for competitors for both dfp and dfa. Many pubs seem to want something, anything besides dfp. Plus the rise of ssps is (maybe?) a reaction to the pub adservers not innovating. For god's sake, openx (written in php!) is being used by pubs. also, hi (earl from qc)

dos1 14y ago
Could you maybe explain some of those acronyms you used?
- vellum 14y ago
  DFP: Dart for Publishers http://www.google.com/doubleclick/publishers/dart.html http://www.google.com/doubleclick/publishers/dart.html DFA: Doubleclick for Advertisers http://www.google.com/doubleclick/advertisers/dfa.html http://www.google.com/doubleclick/advertisers/dfa.html SSP: Supply Side Platform http://www.adopsinsider.com/ad-exchanges/supply-side-platforms/ http://www.adopsinsider.com/ad-exchanges/supply-side-platfor... Open X: Open source tool for managing ads on your website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenX_(software) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenX_(software)
- earl 14y ago
  Sorry dude. When a publisher (pub) sells ad space to an advertiser, there are at least two sets of servers involved. There is a publisher / sell side ad server (pub adserver) which picks which ad to show in an inventory slot on a page view and generally tries to optimize for the publishers income, plus does publisher side reporting. There is a advertiser / buy side ad server which does cross publisher reporting; allows the advertiser to control, change, and update creative; tries to do frequency capping; tries to do cross channel reporting; and tries to optimize on the advertisers' behalf. These are generally not the same server. Google's ad server were basically purchased from doubleclick. DFA is doubleclick for advertisers and DFP is doubleclick for publishers. Openx is a competing publisher ad server. Atlas is microsofts advertiser ad server; it competes with dfa. An SSP is a supply side platform. It's a service that basically replaces a pub ad server and attempts to get as much money for the pub as possible by switching between ad networks and possibly trading off between guaranteed, network, and rtb. It basically is a saas stack that replaces a publisher ad server. An SSP will often also attempt to prevent first party data leakage. a DSP is a similar beast for the demand side and can start to replace an advertiser ad server. From my perspective (and I think many pubs) there hasn't been much innovation between dfp and openx. Hence the movement to SSPs. First party data is, in a nutshell, the fact that a user visited a site or a page. From this you can derive all sorts of things such as the purchasing interests of the user. guaranteed is presold ads, the most lucrative for a publisher
  - dos1 14y ago
    Thanks for the explanation! Having never dealt with internet advertisers I didn't realize there was as much to it as there is :)
eli 14y ago
dfp = DoubleClick for Publisher (helps publishers run the ads that advertisers buy) dfa = DoubleClick for Advertisers (helps advertisers buy ads) OpenX was an open source ad serving platform you could install on your own server, but AFAIK the company behind it has more-or-less killed the open source product and is instead pushing a closed-source hosted ad serving solution.
- look_lookatme 14y ago
  OpenX Enterprise is definitely being pushed hard. They also continue to work on OpenX Market, their exchange. OpenX is not good, but yeah a good number of people are using them.
  - eli 14y ago
    I'm not surprised that many people use OpenX -- I'm surprised at how little competition there is for ad servers. Last year I wanted to build an ad server that could integrate with legacy backend systems and add some custom targeting logic, but I couldn't figure out a good way to do it. All the popular ad servers are either crappy, too limited, too expensive, or some combinaton of the three.
    - look_lookatme 14y ago
      http://www.adzerk.com/ http://www.adzerk.com/ seems to be the only real upstart in the game, as far as I can tell.
paulsutter 14y ago
My view is that the ad server business itself isnt a great business. The strategic value in Google buying Doubleclick was the market share of publishers firmly locked into Doubleclick as a platform, with all their ads flowing through that platform, and the corresponding opportunity to lock all of that inventory into a big ad exchange. The strategic value of market share is huge when establishing an exchange. Exchanges are the purest network effects businesses that exist. I agree that DFP and DFA aren't well loved by anyone. Im not even sure if the folks at Doubleclick love the product. But switching ad servers is as difficult for a publisher as changing keyboard layouts would be for you and me. Your whole process, and training of all your ad ops people just gets locked into the system you're using. This lock in is probably what makes it so hard to improve the product. But this lock in is what made Doubleclick so valuable to Google. Google isn't the only smart operator in this space. Brian O'Kelley at AppNexus simply out hustled all of them to build an platform as important as Google's by linking all the exchanges together. Funny since he was of course CTO at Right Media. (hey Earl!)

by earl 14y ago

dos1 14y ago

Could you maybe explain some of those acronyms you used?

vellum 14y ago
DFP: Dart for Publishers http://www.google.com/doubleclick/publishers/dart.html http://www.google.com/doubleclick/publishers/dart.html DFA: Doubleclick for Advertisers http://www.google.com/doubleclick/advertisers/dfa.html http://www.google.com/doubleclick/advertisers/dfa.html SSP: Supply Side Platform http://www.adopsinsider.com/ad-exchanges/supply-side-platforms/ http://www.adopsinsider.com/ad-exchanges/supply-side-platfor... Open X: Open source tool for managing ads on your website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenX_(software) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenX_(software)
earl 14y ago
Sorry dude. When a publisher (pub) sells ad space to an advertiser, there are at least two sets of servers involved. There is a publisher / sell side ad server (pub adserver) which picks which ad to show in an inventory slot on a page view and generally tries to optimize for the publishers income, plus does publisher side reporting. There is a advertiser / buy side ad server which does cross publisher reporting; allows the advertiser to control, change, and update creative; tries to do frequency capping; tries to do cross channel reporting; and tries to optimize on the advertisers' behalf. These are generally not the same server. Google's ad server were basically purchased from doubleclick. DFA is doubleclick for advertisers and DFP is doubleclick for publishers. Openx is a competing publisher ad server. Atlas is microsofts advertiser ad server; it competes with dfa. An SSP is a supply side platform. It's a service that basically replaces a pub ad server and attempts to get as much money for the pub as possible by switching between ad networks and possibly trading off between guaranteed, network, and rtb. It basically is a saas stack that replaces a publisher ad server. An SSP will often also attempt to prevent first party data leakage. a DSP is a similar beast for the demand side and can start to replace an advertiser ad server. From my perspective (and I think many pubs) there hasn't been much innovation between dfp and openx. Hence the movement to SSPs. First party data is, in a nutshell, the fact that a user visited a site or a page. From this you can derive all sorts of things such as the purchasing interests of the user. guaranteed is presold ads, the most lucrative for a publisher
- dos1 14y ago
  Thanks for the explanation! Having never dealt with internet advertisers I didn't realize there was as much to it as there is :)

eli 14y ago

dfp = DoubleClick for Publisher (helps publishers run the ads that advertisers buy) dfa = DoubleClick for Advertisers (helps advertisers buy ads) OpenX was an open source ad serving platform you could install on your own server, but AFAIK the company behind it has more-or-less killed the open source product and is instead pushing a closed-source hosted ad serving solution.

look_lookatme 14y ago
OpenX Enterprise is definitely being pushed hard. They also continue to work on OpenX Market, their exchange. OpenX is not good, but yeah a good number of people are using them.
- eli 14y ago
  I'm not surprised that many people use OpenX -- I'm surprised at how little competition there is for ad servers. Last year I wanted to build an ad server that could integrate with legacy backend systems and add some custom targeting logic, but I couldn't figure out a good way to do it. All the popular ad servers are either crappy, too limited, too expensive, or some combinaton of the three.
  - look_lookatme 14y ago
    http://www.adzerk.com/ http://www.adzerk.com/ seems to be the only real upstart in the game, as far as I can tell.

paulsutter 14y ago

My view is that the ad server business itself isnt a great business. The strategic value in Google buying Doubleclick was the market share of publishers firmly locked into Doubleclick as a platform, with all their ads flowing through that platform, and the corresponding opportunity to lock all of that inventory into a big ad exchange. The strategic value of market share is huge when establishing an exchange. Exchanges are the purest network effects businesses that exist. I agree that DFP and DFA aren't well loved by anyone. Im not even sure if the folks at Doubleclick love the product. But switching ad servers is as difficult for a publisher as changing keyboard layouts would be for you and me. Your whole process, and training of all your ad ops people just gets locked into the system you're using. This lock in is probably what makes it so hard to improve the product. But this lock in is what made Doubleclick so valuable to Google. Google isn't the only smart operator in this space. Brian O'Kelley at AppNexus simply out hustled all of them to build an platform as important as Google's by linking all the exchanges together. Funny since he was of course CTO at Right Media. (hey Earl!)