5 ms·

Well step 3 is the part they just made illegal. If you are OK with breaking the law, nothing is going to stop you until you get caught and fined. Presumably the

Well step 3 is the part they just made illegal. If you are OK with breaking the law, nothing is going to stop you until you get caught and fined. Presumably the getting caught and fined part will be enough deterrent.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
There's a difference between "fake as defined by the FTC which you will actually get in trouble for" and "fake".
- jasonlotito 2y ago
  It's your comment in the context of the FTC. You said it was fake, in the context of the FTC. Why are you debating yourself?
  - onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
    Please re-read. The FTC defining it as fake means nothing if the FTC does not, in practice, crack down on it regularly. The FTC can say it's illegal to do X, and all companies can do X with impunity if the FTC, in practice, does not do anything about it when companies do X.
sidewndr46 2y ago
what qualifies a review as fake? If I write it, it's a review isn't it? The whole thing is subjective. Plenty of people love products I can't stand
- conductr 2y ago
  And how do they even audit it? Do they require only users who verifiably used/purchased the product to submit reviews? Do they require the reviewer to actually use the product? for sufficient amount of time so that the review is more than just "first impression"? So many loopholes, this won't change anything except perhaps a few big marketplaces but it's doubtful they will be able to police it
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    That's actually a really good point. I can review a can opener in a few minutes. Either it opens the can or it doesn't. How would I ever review something like a Ford F-350? I don't even have a trailer heavy enough to test the towing capacity.
    - conductr 2y ago
      I see a ton of 5 star reviews that just say something like "Super fast shipping!" and think, "OK, have you even opened the box? does it work? is this review for FedEx?"
      - FateOfNations 2y ago
        Well, that's a review for fulfillment, which may or may not be done by the same entity responsible for the product. Many review forms aren't clear about whether they are asking you to review the specific product or the entire transaction experience.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      Well, that's a bad example ... The can opener I had for the first 50 years of my life left a dangerous crazy sharp metal edge around the opening which I cut myself on more than once. The Oxo can opener I've had for the last 10 years rolls the edge as it cuts and removes the entire top of the can; what's left is extremely safe, at least by comparison with the old style. Then again, when I was much younger, I had a backpacking can opener that was useful when hiking in places where sometimes buying canned foods made sense. It was about as large as a very large postage stamp, and crazy good for the size and weight. I wouldn't want to use it at home (much), but it was awesome when I had to carry it around. So, even for can openers, the story can be complicated. Also, assuming that the primary purpose of an F350 is towing is ... interesting. Lots and lots of them here in rural NM (as much as anyway, anyway), and they are rarely towing anything.
      - bear141 2y ago
- LargeWu 2y ago
  Some will be obvious, such as a review for a book or game or other media item that hasn't been publicly released. I would expect a platform such as Amazon would have responsibility to suppress reviews for items that are not, and have never been for sale. A flood of reviews all coming in immediately after the product goes on sale, or a statistically improbable distribution of geographic locations would also be suspicious.
  - FateOfNations 2y ago
    Amazon has a program (Amazon Vine Voices) that enables sellers and brands to send select customers pre-release items for review before the product goes on sale. Sellers/brands can also do that outside their sales platform. Note that these are almost always "free products in exchange for review" and are supposed to be appropriately disclosed.
- r00fus 2y ago
  I don't know this seems to be fairly broad statement that could allow enforcement for any number of schemes: > The final rule addresses reviews and testimonials that misrepresent that they are by someone who does not exist, such as AI-generated fake reviews, or who did not have actual experience with the business or its products or services, or that misrepresent the experience of the person giving it.
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    > that misrepresent the experience of the person giving it. I guess the FTC will be handing out fines for improper personal experiences now?
    - FateOfNations 2y ago
      It's about the actions of the business, not the person experiencing the product. If John Doe submits a review that says, "I bought and used this product, and it sucks," a business can't edit that to say, "I bought and used this product, and it was amazing." That would misrepresent the reviewer's personal experience.
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        But what if that person has no actual experience with the product? Or has insufficient product experience to write a review?
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Amazon is loaded with LLM generated reviews now. They stand out as overly wordy and rambling while being light on any critical discussion of the product.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

There's a difference between "fake as defined by the FTC which you will actually get in trouble for" and "fake".

jasonlotito 2y ago
It's your comment in the context of the FTC. You said it was fake, in the context of the FTC. Why are you debating yourself?
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
  Please re-read. The FTC defining it as fake means nothing if the FTC does not, in practice, crack down on it regularly. The FTC can say it's illegal to do X, and all companies can do X with impunity if the FTC, in practice, does not do anything about it when companies do X.

sidewndr46 2y ago

what qualifies a review as fake? If I write it, it's a review isn't it? The whole thing is subjective. Plenty of people love products I can't stand

conductr 2y ago
And how do they even audit it? Do they require only users who verifiably used/purchased the product to submit reviews? Do they require the reviewer to actually use the product? for sufficient amount of time so that the review is more than just "first impression"? So many loopholes, this won't change anything except perhaps a few big marketplaces but it's doubtful they will be able to police it
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  That's actually a really good point. I can review a can opener in a few minutes. Either it opens the can or it doesn't. How would I ever review something like a Ford F-350? I don't even have a trailer heavy enough to test the towing capacity.
  - conductr 2y ago
    I see a ton of 5 star reviews that just say something like "Super fast shipping!" and think, "OK, have you even opened the box? does it work? is this review for FedEx?"
    - FateOfNations 2y ago
      Well, that's a review for fulfillment, which may or may not be done by the same entity responsible for the product. Many review forms aren't clear about whether they are asking you to review the specific product or the entire transaction experience.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Well, that's a bad example ... The can opener I had for the first 50 years of my life left a dangerous crazy sharp metal edge around the opening which I cut myself on more than once. The Oxo can opener I've had for the last 10 years rolls the edge as it cuts and removes the entire top of the can; what's left is extremely safe, at least by comparison with the old style. Then again, when I was much younger, I had a backpacking can opener that was useful when hiking in places where sometimes buying canned foods made sense. It was about as large as a very large postage stamp, and crazy good for the size and weight. I wouldn't want to use it at home (much), but it was awesome when I had to carry it around. So, even for can openers, the story can be complicated. Also, assuming that the primary purpose of an F350 is towing is ... interesting. Lots and lots of them here in rural NM (as much as anyway, anyway), and they are rarely towing anything.
    - bear141 2y ago
LargeWu 2y ago
Some will be obvious, such as a review for a book or game or other media item that hasn't been publicly released. I would expect a platform such as Amazon would have responsibility to suppress reviews for items that are not, and have never been for sale. A flood of reviews all coming in immediately after the product goes on sale, or a statistically improbable distribution of geographic locations would also be suspicious.
- FateOfNations 2y ago
  Amazon has a program (Amazon Vine Voices) that enables sellers and brands to send select customers pre-release items for review before the product goes on sale. Sellers/brands can also do that outside their sales platform. Note that these are almost always "free products in exchange for review" and are supposed to be appropriately disclosed.
r00fus 2y ago
I don't know this seems to be fairly broad statement that could allow enforcement for any number of schemes: > The final rule addresses reviews and testimonials that misrepresent that they are by someone who does not exist, such as AI-generated fake reviews, or who did not have actual experience with the business or its products or services, or that misrepresent the experience of the person giving it.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  > that misrepresent the experience of the person giving it. I guess the FTC will be handing out fines for improper personal experiences now?
  - FateOfNations 2y ago
    It's about the actions of the business, not the person experiencing the product. If John Doe submits a review that says, "I bought and used this product, and it sucks," a business can't edit that to say, "I bought and used this product, and it was amazing." That would misrepresent the reviewer's personal experience.
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      But what if that person has no actual experience with the product? Or has insufficient product experience to write a review?
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Amazon is loaded with LLM generated reviews now. They stand out as overly wordy and rambling while being light on any critical discussion of the product.