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I don't see the amount as being the issue they pointed out, the parallel as far as I read it, is that it would be horrible if Apple kicked out an app for not pa

I don't see the amount as being the issue they pointed out, the parallel as far as I read it, is that it would be horrible if Apple kicked out an app for not paying them money. And the piece leaves out that indeed Apple does kick out apps for not paying money, AND if one was to consider the amounts it makes the ask from Automattic seem even less of an issue comparatively, AND if one was to consider the amount of stuff Automattic does that enhances the product it's even more puzzling that it's left out or not considered. This is without getting into open source and all sorts of other things that make the parallel hilariously bad.

CRConrad 2y ago
> I don't see the amount as being the issue they pointed out, the parallel as far as I read it, is that it would be horrible if Apple kicked out an app for not paying them money. Nope, still missing it. In the G(GGG...)P's parallel, Apple didn't "kick out" the app, only the creator. Just like Automattic / WP.org (is there really any difference, or has that only been an illusion?) didn't "kick out" the plug-in, but WP Engine, the company. The issue they pointed out was that Automattic (via WP.org?) hijacked the plug-in's user base. They basically stole the plug-in from the creator -- like if Spotify on the App Store was now, as far as users are concerned, an Apple app. Do you finally get it now? (Please, please do.)
- stevenicr 2y ago
  okay - not apple banning the app, but banning the company - well yes they have done that - DDG -> Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account and that being about not getting their proper cut of Epic's revenues Now if the piece was to solely focus on the 'taking the plugin' / their user base.. Many plugins have been kicked out over the years, and it's been publicly understood and discussed that given the GPL licensing, literally anyone can 'steal' a plugin and re-upload it to the wp repo.. They did not steal the user base - as anyone with the premium plugin has their email address (and their site urls) in the ACF system. In this unusual case, ACF is so embedded in so many WP things that they could not just shut it off like they have with others (still missing / miffed about wp-spamshield getting a similar treatment btw) - it needed to be replaced if removed. as a semi-tangent - I was really miffed when wp-engine took over ACF, I wish that had been disallowed somehow - it felt like a consolidation of power that could be abused, and today we see that playing out as a difficult thing. Luckily WP core has been rolling out an ACF like things in base / Gutenberg the past few months - so it's likely that adoption will continue and sadly those of us with old legacy ACF modded themes will be seen as less and less important. It's probably a good thing in the long term, it is a little messy right now though. To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. another tangent - I wish google would make a better 'missed call / text / reminder app' - not that I want the developers of the other ones kicked out, but the community could expect better than what exists. anyhow, things continue to evolve and no one has an ownership of any platform they don't own, stark reminder.
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Are you still refusing to see the obvious parallel, or have you shifted the goalposts to some totally other subject by now? I mean, you know, I could of course read your wall of text to find out... But why should I bother? Neither alternative would be you discussing in good faith, AFAICS. Dammit, I looked at it! And what immediately leapt out was of course > To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel. Have you always been such a shill, or is it only in this case? Ah, you know what? Don't even bother to answer. Have a good life.
    - stevenicr 2y ago
      I assure you I am not a shill, in fact I have been so critical of some of what Automatic has chosen to do over the years, that I single-handedly got the moderation policy of wp-tavern to be created. (true story) This does not make sense to me here, you wrote: ------- > To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel. ------- my comment specifically stated that it was not the first time a developer had something and then an app store made another version of it so what you are saying is not making sense. I'm well aware ACF was not Automattic's, my comment clearly mentioned I was shocked and salty when wp-Engine acquired it. (I am and have been an ACF pro license holder since before it was bought my wp-engine) I use ACF on a half dozen sites. But just so the world knows, and this was made blazingly clear many moons ago in the open source and WordPress community back in the day of the heated exit of wpmu-dev and their plugins.. no one owns all the GPL stuff, and no one owns a slot in the Wordpress.org's servers, plugins directory or themes directory. All sorts of plugins and themes and developers have been kicked out over the years, some rightfully so, so questionable.. either way, you don't own the directory, you can take your code, their code, and host it anywhere you want. A lesson I hope many others aside fro wp-engine are (re-?)learning at the moment.

CRConrad 2y ago

> I don't see the amount as being the issue they pointed out, the parallel as far as I read it, is that it would be horrible if Apple kicked out an app for not paying them money. Nope, still missing it. In the G(GGG...)P's parallel, Apple didn't "kick out" the app, only the creator. Just like Automattic / WP.org (is there really any difference, or has that only been an illusion?) didn't "kick out" the plug-in, but WP Engine, the company. The issue they pointed out was that Automattic (via WP.org?) hijacked the plug-in's user base. They basically stole the plug-in from the creator -- like if Spotify on the App Store was now, as far as users are concerned, an Apple app. Do you finally get it now? (Please, please do.)

stevenicr 2y ago
okay - not apple banning the app, but banning the company - well yes they have done that - DDG -> Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account and that being about not getting their proper cut of Epic's revenues Now if the piece was to solely focus on the 'taking the plugin' / their user base.. Many plugins have been kicked out over the years, and it's been publicly understood and discussed that given the GPL licensing, literally anyone can 'steal' a plugin and re-upload it to the wp repo.. They did not steal the user base - as anyone with the premium plugin has their email address (and their site urls) in the ACF system. In this unusual case, ACF is so embedded in so many WP things that they could not just shut it off like they have with others (still missing / miffed about wp-spamshield getting a similar treatment btw) - it needed to be replaced if removed. as a semi-tangent - I was really miffed when wp-engine took over ACF, I wish that had been disallowed somehow - it felt like a consolidation of power that could be abused, and today we see that playing out as a difficult thing. Luckily WP core has been rolling out an ACF like things in base / Gutenberg the past few months - so it's likely that adoption will continue and sadly those of us with old legacy ACF modded themes will be seen as less and less important. It's probably a good thing in the long term, it is a little messy right now though. To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. another tangent - I wish google would make a better 'missed call / text / reminder app' - not that I want the developers of the other ones kicked out, but the community could expect better than what exists. anyhow, things continue to evolve and no one has an ownership of any platform they don't own, stark reminder.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Are you still refusing to see the obvious parallel, or have you shifted the goalposts to some totally other subject by now? I mean, you know, I could of course read your wall of text to find out... But why should I bother? Neither alternative would be you discussing in good faith, AFAICS. Dammit, I looked at it! And what immediately leapt out was of course > To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel. Have you always been such a shill, or is it only in this case? Ah, you know what? Don't even bother to answer. Have a good life.
  - stevenicr 2y ago
    I assure you I am not a shill, in fact I have been so critical of some of what Automatic has chosen to do over the years, that I single-handedly got the moderation policy of wp-tavern to be created. (true story) This does not make sense to me here, you wrote: ------- > To your point, this would not be the first time apple or google or samsung released their own thing that a developer previously had a super popular version of, and it won't be the last year such things happen. Yeah, except this isn't Automattic's "own thing". It's WP Engine's plug-in, lock, stock, and barrel. ------- my comment specifically stated that it was not the first time a developer had something and then an app store made another version of it so what you are saying is not making sense. I'm well aware ACF was not Automattic's, my comment clearly mentioned I was shocked and salty when wp-Engine acquired it. (I am and have been an ACF pro license holder since before it was bought my wp-engine) I use ACF on a half dozen sites. But just so the world knows, and this was made blazingly clear many moons ago in the open source and WordPress community back in the day of the heated exit of wpmu-dev and their plugins.. no one owns all the GPL stuff, and no one owns a slot in the Wordpress.org's servers, plugins directory or themes directory. All sorts of plugins and themes and developers have been kicked out over the years, some rightfully so, so questionable.. either way, you don't own the directory, you can take your code, their code, and host it anywhere you want. A lesson I hope many others aside fro wp-engine are (re-?)learning at the moment.