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It's valid in this latest proposal. It becomes the item displayed on the page rather than the browser-controlled 'button'. In browsers that don't support custo

It's valid in this latest proposal. It becomes the item displayed on the page rather than the browser-controlled 'button'. In browsers that don't support customisable select, the button is ignored. https://codepen.io/jaffathecake/pen/NWQaxmG?editors=1100 https://codepen.io/jaffathecake/pen/NWQaxmG?editors=1100 - compare this in Chrome Canary with chrome://flags/#enable-experimental-web-platform-features vs other browsers (or the flag disabled).

Y-bar 2y ago
All I can find is a Chrome experiment. Do you have a draft spec available? Edit: Found a link to the Chrome blog which in turn links to https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9799 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9799 Initial question remains however, how are we to properly distinguish the user interface actions?
- jaffathecake 2y ago
  What does "distinguish the user interface actions" mean here? The browser knows the <button> that's a child of <select> is special, and activates the popover on click. This is handled automatically, as is the accessibility tree.
  - Y-bar 2y ago
    If it is special, why not use a new element and not one with a history and a clear use today? From my experience it seems to muddle the concept of the existing element. An <a> for example never behaves differently depending on if it is part of a (DOM) tree with a <div> or a <p> as a parent/grandparent.
    - jaffathecake 2y ago
      It does. An <a> doesn't work as usual when it's within a <button> for instance. <button> already behaves differently depending on the type of form it's in, or whether it's in a form at all. Let me put it another way: If you use a <select> today, what's the difference between the thing that renders on the page and a <button>? They look different, sure, but that's a matter of styling. You can already style a <button> to look like a <select> activator. They can receive focus, and they can be activated. They're buttons.
      - Y-bar 2y ago
        Adding another gotcha will help no-one. This line of argument reminds me of Plat's "featherless bipeds" as a definition of man. Everything's a button if you are ambiguous enough, sure. It's not _wrong_ but it also dilutes things to where semantic meaning no longer exists.

Y-bar 2y ago

All I can find is a Chrome experiment. Do you have a draft spec available? Edit: Found a link to the Chrome blog which in turn links to https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9799 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9799 Initial question remains however, how are we to properly distinguish the user interface actions?

jaffathecake 2y ago
What does "distinguish the user interface actions" mean here? The browser knows the <button> that's a child of <select> is special, and activates the popover on click. This is handled automatically, as is the accessibility tree.
- Y-bar 2y ago
  If it is special, why not use a new element and not one with a history and a clear use today? From my experience it seems to muddle the concept of the existing element. An <a> for example never behaves differently depending on if it is part of a (DOM) tree with a <div> or a <p> as a parent/grandparent.
  - jaffathecake 2y ago
    It does. An <a> doesn't work as usual when it's within a <button> for instance. <button> already behaves differently depending on the type of form it's in, or whether it's in a form at all. Let me put it another way: If you use a <select> today, what's the difference between the thing that renders on the page and a <button>? They look different, sure, but that's a matter of styling. You can already style a <button> to look like a <select> activator. They can receive focus, and they can be activated. They're buttons.
    - Y-bar 2y ago
      Adding another gotcha will help no-one. This line of argument reminds me of Plat's "featherless bipeds" as a definition of man. Everything's a button if you are ambiguous enough, sure. It's not _wrong_ but it also dilutes things to where semantic meaning no longer exists.