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Jokes don’t always have meaning. “I want to play a joke on Bob” can very easily mean “I’m just going to torture Bob a bit for my amusement”. The joke will not h

Jokes don’t always have meaning. “I want to play a joke on Bob” can very easily mean “I’m just going to torture Bob a bit for my amusement”. The joke will not have meaning to Bob.

alonsonic 2y ago
It has a meaning to Bob because the joke exists for a reason he can comprehend even he doesn't like it.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  That's only true if he's aware of it.
  - lazide 2y ago
    But we try to not talk about Cincinnati.
- kortilla 2y ago
  No, bob doesn’t know he’s even being intentionally fucked with. There are many videos of this style of “prank” available on the internet.
mmooss 2y ago
There is a lot of subtle meaning layered into that: Cleverness: I'm funny and I'm confident enough in it to risk doing it publicly Status: The statuses of you and Bob allow you to play a joke on them. Often such jokes are a public demonstration of status, like children do more explicitly and often unconsciously in the schoolyard. Empathy: 'I say suffering is funny'; it asserts a willingness to violate a taboo, be unempathetic, and therefore potentially dangerous Personal power: I'm powerful and independent enough to do something on a whim etc.
- kortilla 2y ago
  Yes, none of that meaning is apparent to Bob, which is my point.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    I think it is apparent to Bob and to everyone else, implicitly but unmistakeably; it's a message on many levels.
    - kortilla 2y ago
      No, it is not apparent to Bob. Please stop willfully misinterpreting it. It’s a whole class of shitty jokes where you mess with people under the entire purpose of doing it without them knowing. If Bob knows he’s being messed with, that’s something completely different.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        You don't need to make up a state of mind for other people - the smart approach is to realize you have no idea what they are thinking - just politely say what you have to say. The second paragraph is fine. I don't see where it's expressed above (?); no willfullness involved - I didn't even realize that you thought were having such a heated discussion. The other commenter also didn't pick up on it either.
        kortilla 2y ago
        It’s willful because you have ignore the very small and to the point comment I made about talking about jokes where the subject is unaware. If I’m talking about a class of things explicitly defined by having attribute X and someone comes in and says “I don’t think that has attribute X”, that’s willfully if ignoring what is being discussed. Also, don’t give a lecture about making up people’s state of mind and then pretend I think I’m having a heated discussion. It’s not heated, I’m just explaining in the simplest terms possible that there is a class of jokes where the subject does not know a joke is occurring. It just seems heated to you because you don’t like being told you’re missing the point.

Jokes don’t always have meaning. “I want to play a joke on Bob” can very easily mean “I’m just going to torture Bob a bit for my amusement”. The joke will not have meaning to Bob.

alonsonic 2y ago

It has a meaning to Bob because the joke exists for a reason he can comprehend even he doesn't like it.

Brian_K_White 2y ago
That's only true if he's aware of it.
- lazide 2y ago
  But we try to not talk about Cincinnati.
kortilla 2y ago
No, bob doesn’t know he’s even being intentionally fucked with. There are many videos of this style of “prank” available on the internet.

mmooss 2y ago

There is a lot of subtle meaning layered into that: Cleverness: I'm funny and I'm confident enough in it to risk doing it publicly Status: The statuses of you and Bob allow you to play a joke on them. Often such jokes are a public demonstration of status, like children do more explicitly and often unconsciously in the schoolyard. Empathy: 'I say suffering is funny'; it asserts a willingness to violate a taboo, be unempathetic, and therefore potentially dangerous Personal power: I'm powerful and independent enough to do something on a whim etc.

kortilla 2y ago
Yes, none of that meaning is apparent to Bob, which is my point.
- mmooss 2y ago
  I think it is apparent to Bob and to everyone else, implicitly but unmistakeably; it's a message on many levels.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    No, it is not apparent to Bob. Please stop willfully misinterpreting it. It’s a whole class of shitty jokes where you mess with people under the entire purpose of doing it without them knowing. If Bob knows he’s being messed with, that’s something completely different.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      You don't need to make up a state of mind for other people - the smart approach is to realize you have no idea what they are thinking - just politely say what you have to say. The second paragraph is fine. I don't see where it's expressed above (?); no willfullness involved - I didn't even realize that you thought were having such a heated discussion. The other commenter also didn't pick up on it either.
      - kortilla 2y ago
        It’s willful because you have ignore the very small and to the point comment I made about talking about jokes where the subject is unaware. If I’m talking about a class of things explicitly defined by having attribute X and someone comes in and says “I don’t think that has attribute X”, that’s willfully if ignoring what is being discussed. Also, don’t give a lecture about making up people’s state of mind and then pretend I think I’m having a heated discussion. It’s not heated, I’m just explaining in the simplest terms possible that there is a class of jokes where the subject does not know a joke is occurring. It just seems heated to you because you don’t like being told you’re missing the point.