4 ms·

> but I think your "_really_" is actually just "_pretty_" and you're trying to include more than the 1 in 100 million. I don't quite understand your point. Pre

> but I think your "_really_" is actually just "_pretty_" and you're trying to include more than the 1 in 100 million. I don't quite understand your point. Pretty good still puts you far ahead of the average. I could easily handle second year college maths and computer science while in high school. And I couldn't hold a candle to Ramanujan. I still needed to do well in my other courses in order to be able to get into my chosen college.

elijaht 2y ago
I think that's the point - "pretty good" isn't good enough for a top school to want to admit you. Second year college/CS is pretty good but I went to a great high school where there were 50+ kids at that level. That's not enough to stand out in a meaningful way. Whereas if someone was Ramanujan-level, their raw talent would be so apparent they wouldn't have this issue and would clearly stand out.
- WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago
  > Second year college/CS is pretty good but I went to a great high school where there were 50+ kids at that level. That's not enough to stand out in a meaningful way. It is not enough to stand out in the current system. The parent was saying selecting the 50 kids who can handle it is a much better approach than just taking the highest overall grades. The average A's across the board high school student can't handle second year college maths. Yet they will be placed ahead of the observably better at math kids. Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". Being well-rounded and having exposure to a bunch of topics is valuable to an extent. However, in my experience most of the people making a real difference in the workplace and academia are not particularly well rounded. Thankfully in tech there are alternative pathways. However, for many professions there aren't and these high performers are simply excluded to societies detriment.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    > Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". This is exactly the route to exploitation by MBA managers. Great developer, loyal, doesn't understand the need to change companies to get paid a competitive salary. Perfect hire. The person who doesn't understand economics pays the price themselves.
  - kiba 2y ago
    Being well-rounded and having exposure to a bunch of topics is valuable to an extent. However, in my experience most of the people making a real difference in the workplace and academia are not particularly well rounded. You can only progress so much in a field of expertise before hitting diminishing return. At some point it makes sense to broaden your knowledge and skillset.
    - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
      >You can only progress so much in a field of expertise before hitting diminishing return. I suppose how long you can progress for and how far you can progress depends somewhat on the breadth and depth of the field of expertise. Many fields of expertise are so broad and deep that they have their own sub-fields just to make them manageable. So you would probably be in a sub-field and then broaden your knowledge and skill-set in a related sub-field of the overall field that you are well suited to. I'm betting it's likely you can see how your own particular field, as you are on HN, replicates this pattern.
  - elijaht 2y ago
    > It is not enough to stand out in the current system. What I'm saying is in some hypothetical system which places a great emphasis on specialization, people who are a few years ahead of curriculum are a dime a dozen and will not stand out. There were 50 kids in my high school, so how many is that nationwide? Particularly in math, it is straightforward for an exceptional talent to stand out. Competitive math is a clear pathway/credential. If someone is not able to achieve meaningful results then it's probably just the case that they aren't as talented as they believe > Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". There are plenty of software devs who are not getting hired to the potential of their raw development skills because they cannot communicate or collaborate productively. There are also plenty of software devs who are not getting hired to the potential of their raw development skills because they don't have as much domain knowledge as other devs.
- seiferteric 2y ago
  Maybe, but TFA says at least in Ramanujan's case: But he ignored all subjects besides math and lost his scholarship within a year. He later enrolled in another university, this time in Madras (now Chennai), the provincial capital some 250 kilometers north. Again he flunked out. Maybe it would be different now?
  - hgomersall 2y ago
    If you get into the IMO team you'll be accepted anywhere good for maths. Probably a high position in the local competition would be enough. (YMMV as my understanding is coloured by a little knowledge of the system in the UK)

elijaht 2y ago

I think that's the point - "pretty good" isn't good enough for a top school to want to admit you. Second year college/CS is pretty good but I went to a great high school where there were 50+ kids at that level. That's not enough to stand out in a meaningful way. Whereas if someone was Ramanujan-level, their raw talent would be so apparent they wouldn't have this issue and would clearly stand out.

WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago
> Second year college/CS is pretty good but I went to a great high school where there were 50+ kids at that level. That's not enough to stand out in a meaningful way. It is not enough to stand out in the current system. The parent was saying selecting the 50 kids who can handle it is a much better approach than just taking the highest overall grades. The average A's across the board high school student can't handle second year college maths. Yet they will be placed ahead of the observably better at math kids. Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". Being well-rounded and having exposure to a bunch of topics is valuable to an extent. However, in my experience most of the people making a real difference in the workplace and academia are not particularly well rounded. Thankfully in tech there are alternative pathways. However, for many professions there aren't and these high performers are simply excluded to societies detriment.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  > Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". This is exactly the route to exploitation by MBA managers. Great developer, loyal, doesn't understand the need to change companies to get paid a competitive salary. Perfect hire. The person who doesn't understand economics pays the price themselves.
- kiba 2y ago
  Being well-rounded and having exposure to a bunch of topics is valuable to an extent. However, in my experience most of the people making a real difference in the workplace and academia are not particularly well rounded. You can only progress so much in a field of expertise before hitting diminishing return. At some point it makes sense to broaden your knowledge and skillset.
  - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
    >You can only progress so much in a field of expertise before hitting diminishing return. I suppose how long you can progress for and how far you can progress depends somewhat on the breadth and depth of the field of expertise. Many fields of expertise are so broad and deep that they have their own sub-fields just to make them manageable. So you would probably be in a sub-field and then broaden your knowledge and skill-set in a related sub-field of the overall field that you are well suited to. I'm betting it's likely you can see how your own particular field, as you are on HN, replicates this pattern.
- elijaht 2y ago
  > It is not enough to stand out in the current system. What I'm saying is in some hypothetical system which places a great emphasis on specialization, people who are a few years ahead of curriculum are a dime a dozen and will not stand out. There were 50 kids in my high school, so how many is that nationwide? Particularly in math, it is straightforward for an exceptional talent to stand out. Competitive math is a clear pathway/credential. If someone is not able to achieve meaningful results then it's probably just the case that they aren't as talented as they believe > Imagine if jobs worked like this - "Yes, we know you are a great developer but you don't really understand economics. Sorry". There are plenty of software devs who are not getting hired to the potential of their raw development skills because they cannot communicate or collaborate productively. There are also plenty of software devs who are not getting hired to the potential of their raw development skills because they don't have as much domain knowledge as other devs.
seiferteric 2y ago
Maybe, but TFA says at least in Ramanujan's case: But he ignored all subjects besides math and lost his scholarship within a year. He later enrolled in another university, this time in Madras (now Chennai), the provincial capital some 250 kilometers north. Again he flunked out. Maybe it would be different now?
- hgomersall 2y ago
  If you get into the IMO team you'll be accepted anywhere good for maths. Probably a high position in the local competition would be enough. (YMMV as my understanding is coloured by a little knowledge of the system in the UK)