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> Feeling smart != being smart Like many psychedelic users can attest to. The mindset of enlightenment is just another mindset that can be produced by the brai

> Feeling smart != being smart Like many psychedelic users can attest to. The mindset of enlightenment is just another mindset that can be produced by the brain by doing the appropriate actions

Hugsun 2y ago
There are is an unfortunately large proportion of them that are fooled by the emotion and believe it.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  For me, I get drunk and I start to feel really smart and enlightened, however next day I usually cringe, but who knows maybe it was the drunk me that was the smart one and the cringing me is just too narrow minded and judgmental.
  - itronitron 2y ago
    It really depends on the task, some people are better at speaking a foreign language after they've had a few drinks.
    - fsckboy 2y ago
      oh, so that's why they become less intelligible to their native friends!
    - gtirloni 2y ago
      I can confirm. While visiting Russia and having a few drinks with friends, I could understand everything perfectly even though my vocabulary was just a few words! Just kidding of course but we seemed to be understanding each other really well and later when everybody was sober, we recalled it being a good time.
    - im3w1l 2y ago
      The sober mind has been trained to carefully construct grammatically flawless sentences for the teacher. Hence the sober mind is hesitant, fearful and prone to second guessing itself. The drunk mind he knows it not matter. Tempo and rhythm importanter. No stopping. Know not how conjugate don't conjugate. Not remember word loan other lingua. Say story no stopping manier words is gooder.
      - vundercind 2y ago
        I found that I had to get over feeling like I was mocking a foreign accent, before I could become even passably-for-someone-bad-at-it good at an accent for the one other language I've ever tried to semi-seriously learn. In fact, leaning into "mocking" it was the fastest way to improve. I bet that it's easier to get past that perceived faux-pas when a few drinks in....
      - djmips 2y ago
        Same with music.
      - mewpmewp2 2y ago
        I'm pretty sure a drunk mind can read what you commented with ease and get the point, while a sober mind would get stuck and think "what is this" and do multiple takes before getting the point.
- lynx23 2y ago
  That. Joscha Bach pretty much summarized the problem with just one word: Overfitting. I've since spotted the pattern several times. People going all in on psychedelics, seeing them as the solution to almost everything. Leary and McKenna starting a cult. Esp. McKenna and the true hallucination story make it pretty obvious that these two brothers overdid it so much that they couldn't just leave it behind, they had to follow up and supposedly go deep on that stuff.
mistermann 2y ago
> just I am always skeptical of instances of normal consciousness that claim to know the unknowable. Like how could one even conclusively fact check such a thing? Do people even try?
- bubblyworld 2y ago
  I think if you're curious about this sort of thing you have to go the route of the gnostic and try to experience it for yourself (the bidirectional link between your actions and your mental state, I mean). Meditation is one approach, drugs another. Perhaps in the future we'll have the tools to study this stuff more quantitatively, but for now the mind seems to be mostly mystery to science?
  - mistermann 2y ago
    I'm interested in why it's become normalized for people to know the unknowable, and a lot of those afflicted are scientists. Plus, I don't see science making a lot of progress on the front.
    - bubblyworld 2y ago
      Hmm, maybe I'm not sure what you mean about people knowing the unknowable? To me, whether something is unknowable or not is a property that can change over time as technology/epistemology develops. On the other hand there have always been (and probably will always be) people making confident assertions about things they don't know for certain. Getting at some sort of truth is an uncommon goal for monkeys =). No disagreement from me about science making progress on the mind.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        > On the other hand there have always been (and probably will always be) people making confident assertions about things they don't know for certain. Here's how it works: "Oh, that is just...". Ignore billions of these per day in the system, and you get what we constantly complain about but don't know how it came to be. Science developed a method to deal with this phenomenon that works quite well, but it is only applied in very narrow domains. At certain scale, systems no longer appear as systems.

> Feeling smart != being smart Like many psychedelic users can attest to. The mindset of enlightenment is just another mindset that can be produced by the brain by doing the appropriate actions

Hugsun 2y ago

There are is an unfortunately large proportion of them that are fooled by the emotion and believe it.

mewpmewp2 2y ago
For me, I get drunk and I start to feel really smart and enlightened, however next day I usually cringe, but who knows maybe it was the drunk me that was the smart one and the cringing me is just too narrow minded and judgmental.
- itronitron 2y ago
  It really depends on the task, some people are better at speaking a foreign language after they've had a few drinks.
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    oh, so that's why they become less intelligible to their native friends!
  - gtirloni 2y ago
    I can confirm. While visiting Russia and having a few drinks with friends, I could understand everything perfectly even though my vocabulary was just a few words! Just kidding of course but we seemed to be understanding each other really well and later when everybody was sober, we recalled it being a good time.
  - im3w1l 2y ago
    The sober mind has been trained to carefully construct grammatically flawless sentences for the teacher. Hence the sober mind is hesitant, fearful and prone to second guessing itself. The drunk mind he knows it not matter. Tempo and rhythm importanter. No stopping. Know not how conjugate don't conjugate. Not remember word loan other lingua. Say story no stopping manier words is gooder.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      I found that I had to get over feeling like I was mocking a foreign accent, before I could become even passably-for-someone-bad-at-it good at an accent for the one other language I've ever tried to semi-seriously learn. In fact, leaning into "mocking" it was the fastest way to improve. I bet that it's easier to get past that perceived faux-pas when a few drinks in....
    - djmips 2y ago
      Same with music.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure a drunk mind can read what you commented with ease and get the point, while a sober mind would get stuck and think "what is this" and do multiple takes before getting the point.
lynx23 2y ago
That. Joscha Bach pretty much summarized the problem with just one word: Overfitting. I've since spotted the pattern several times. People going all in on psychedelics, seeing them as the solution to almost everything. Leary and McKenna starting a cult. Esp. McKenna and the true hallucination story make it pretty obvious that these two brothers overdid it so much that they couldn't just leave it behind, they had to follow up and supposedly go deep on that stuff.

mistermann 2y ago

> just I am always skeptical of instances of normal consciousness that claim to know the unknowable. Like how could one even conclusively fact check such a thing? Do people even try?

bubblyworld 2y ago
I think if you're curious about this sort of thing you have to go the route of the gnostic and try to experience it for yourself (the bidirectional link between your actions and your mental state, I mean). Meditation is one approach, drugs another. Perhaps in the future we'll have the tools to study this stuff more quantitatively, but for now the mind seems to be mostly mystery to science?
- mistermann 2y ago
  I'm interested in why it's become normalized for people to know the unknowable, and a lot of those afflicted are scientists. Plus, I don't see science making a lot of progress on the front.
  - bubblyworld 2y ago
    Hmm, maybe I'm not sure what you mean about people knowing the unknowable? To me, whether something is unknowable or not is a property that can change over time as technology/epistemology develops. On the other hand there have always been (and probably will always be) people making confident assertions about things they don't know for certain. Getting at some sort of truth is an uncommon goal for monkeys =). No disagreement from me about science making progress on the mind.
    - mistermann 2y ago
      > On the other hand there have always been (and probably will always be) people making confident assertions about things they don't know for certain. Here's how it works: "Oh, that is just...". Ignore billions of these per day in the system, and you get what we constantly complain about but don't know how it came to be. Science developed a method to deal with this phenomenon that works quite well, but it is only applied in very narrow domains. At certain scale, systems no longer appear as systems.