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Consider the spectrum: Absolute border security - it is literally impossible by land/sea/air/tunnel to cross into the US territory from Mexico without rapid de

Consider the spectrum: Absolute border security - it is literally impossible by land/sea/air/tunnel to cross into the US territory from Mexico without rapid detection and response. ... Open border - the US does not impede general traffic from Mexico, bringing certain goods remains illegal but enforcement of this is limited to additional penalties after apprehension. We are pretty far from both of those right now. I don't think the person you initially replied to was arguing for an open border. But surely it's not an ideal use of resources to stop all of these border based crimes in real time? Most people are not crossing illegally. Those that do are going to have to actively evade those consequences as long as they continue an unpermitted stay. How much of our GDP should we spend to move "up" that spectrum? What benefits are we gaining by doing so? What consequences do we face?

ryandrake 2y ago
Exactly. Once "the border" became politicized, very few people allow themselves to think in terms of a spectrum. They just stand up a straw man on either extreme end and argue against it. Almost nobody is arguing for absolute open borders or absolute closed borders.
autoexec 2y ago
> What benefits are we gaining by doing so? What consequences do we face? Just ask any city that has had to deal with a massive unexpected influx of people. Try NYC for example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/08/09/nyc-mayor-says-migrants-could-cost-city-12-billion-by-2025-without-federal-and-state-help/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/08/09/nyc-ma... Hospitals, schools, infrastructure, social services, housing, they all depend on planning for funding and to keep pace with population to avoid being overrun. Things are bad enough right now with the massive numbers of economic migrants coming into the country, but once there are literal billions of climate refugees things will be much worse unless we are prepared. Now is the time to invest in the regulation of immigration and defense of our borders so that we can safely accommodate as many of the people climate change displaces as we can. We also need to be thinking about what climate change will do to populations within the US. See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/climate-crisis-migration-america.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/clim... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-america-3-million-migrants-first-street-nature/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-america-3-millio... If you think it isn't worth the investment, even in low cost expenses like cameras, I can only imagine you aren't living near the boarder or aren't considering the refugee crisis that is coming.
- kmeisthax 2y ago
  NYC has a bunch of uniquely New York problems that make accommodating anyone - refugees or otherwise - impossible. It's some of the most expensive real estate in the world, in a city that's seeing huge population outflows, burdened by an extremely top-heavy city and state government. If you don't have a tax base, you can't accomodate anyone. But there's plenty of America that isn't NYC. Furthermore, Eric Adams is... ugh. How do I put it? The Wikipedia article on him has an above-the-fold mention of him doing community work with Nation of Islam[0], as an NYPD cop. He got elected because NY liberals would vote for Trump if he had a D next to his name. Furthermore, federal investigations have revealed he's a foreign agent of Turkiye and Erdogan, up to and including denying the Armenian Genocide[1]. He's hilariously incompetent and malicious at the same time. [0] I mentioned this on a Discord call with a friend, who responded, "OH MY GOD, HE'S INTO THE BLITLER SHIT?" [1] https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/10/04/eric-adams-brooklyn-turkish-center-armenian-genocide/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/10/04/eric-adams-brooklyn-turki... Speaking of Hitler, denying the Armenian Genocide is a thing Literally Hitler Literally Joked About
  - autoexec 2y ago
    NYC has a bunch of uniquely New York problems. Denver has a bunch of uniquely Denver problems (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/denver-struggles-cope-40000-migrants-rcna135555 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/denver-struggles-cope-4...). Chicago has a bunch of uniquely Chicago problems (https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/white-house-chicago-migrant-crisis-tension/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/white-house-chicago-...). Minneapolis has a bunch of uniquely Minneapolis problems (https://www.startribune.com/migrants-fill-third-of-hennepin-county-family-homeless-shelters-minnesota-new-york/600315822 https://www.startribune.com/migrants-fill-third-of-hennepin-...), etc. I mean, yeah, places like NYC and Chicago genuinely do have some really messed up situations, but almost any large city would become quickly overwhelmed when a bunch of people unexpectedly show up needing help, smaller cities don't stand a chance.

ryandrake 2y ago

Exactly. Once "the border" became politicized, very few people allow themselves to think in terms of a spectrum. They just stand up a straw man on either extreme end and argue against it. Almost nobody is arguing for absolute open borders or absolute closed borders.

autoexec 2y ago

> What benefits are we gaining by doing so? What consequences do we face? Just ask any city that has had to deal with a massive unexpected influx of people. Try NYC for example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/08/09/nyc-mayor-says-migrants-could-cost-city-12-billion-by-2025-without-federal-and-state-help/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/08/09/nyc-ma... Hospitals, schools, infrastructure, social services, housing, they all depend on planning for funding and to keep pace with population to avoid being overrun. Things are bad enough right now with the massive numbers of economic migrants coming into the country, but once there are literal billions of climate refugees things will be much worse unless we are prepared. Now is the time to invest in the regulation of immigration and defense of our borders so that we can safely accommodate as many of the people climate change displaces as we can. We also need to be thinking about what climate change will do to populations within the US. See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/climate-crisis-migration-america.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/clim... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-america-3-million-migrants-first-street-nature/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-america-3-millio... If you think it isn't worth the investment, even in low cost expenses like cameras, I can only imagine you aren't living near the boarder or aren't considering the refugee crisis that is coming.

kmeisthax 2y ago
NYC has a bunch of uniquely New York problems that make accommodating anyone - refugees or otherwise - impossible. It's some of the most expensive real estate in the world, in a city that's seeing huge population outflows, burdened by an extremely top-heavy city and state government. If you don't have a tax base, you can't accomodate anyone. But there's plenty of America that isn't NYC. Furthermore, Eric Adams is... ugh. How do I put it? The Wikipedia article on him has an above-the-fold mention of him doing community work with Nation of Islam[0], as an NYPD cop. He got elected because NY liberals would vote for Trump if he had a D next to his name. Furthermore, federal investigations have revealed he's a foreign agent of Turkiye and Erdogan, up to and including denying the Armenian Genocide[1]. He's hilariously incompetent and malicious at the same time. [0] I mentioned this on a Discord call with a friend, who responded, "OH MY GOD, HE'S INTO THE BLITLER SHIT?" [1] https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/10/04/eric-adams-brooklyn-turkish-center-armenian-genocide/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/10/04/eric-adams-brooklyn-turki... Speaking of Hitler, denying the Armenian Genocide is a thing Literally Hitler Literally Joked About
- autoexec 2y ago
  NYC has a bunch of uniquely New York problems. Denver has a bunch of uniquely Denver problems (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/denver-struggles-cope-40000-migrants-rcna135555 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/denver-struggles-cope-4...). Chicago has a bunch of uniquely Chicago problems (https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/white-house-chicago-migrant-crisis-tension/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/white-house-chicago-...). Minneapolis has a bunch of uniquely Minneapolis problems (https://www.startribune.com/migrants-fill-third-of-hennepin-county-family-homeless-shelters-minnesota-new-york/600315822 https://www.startribune.com/migrants-fill-third-of-hennepin-...), etc. I mean, yeah, places like NYC and Chicago genuinely do have some really messed up situations, but almost any large city would become quickly overwhelmed when a bunch of people unexpectedly show up needing help, smaller cities don't stand a chance.