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Is it even not available to competitors? Visual studio is open source. Didn't cusor fork it and is building it features directly into the fork? Not doing someth

Is it even not available to competitors? Visual studio is open source. Didn't cusor fork it and is building it features directly into the fork? Not doing something like this would make Copilot at a disadvantage.

serial_dev 2y ago
But Cursor had to fork, so as a developer wanting to use them, you need to give up VS Code and install a new code editor, and you can’t just install a plugin. Very few can maintain a fork and get enough people to use their fork. Also what happens if you have two products that needed a fork? You can’t use them both. I don’t know if it’s legal or not, IANAL, but it feels definitely anti competitive.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sshine 2y ago
> Visual studio is open source Sort of. The core is, and the installable binaries with telemetry and properietary extensions are not. The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCodium: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ > Didn't cusor fork it and is building it features directly into the fork? Yes, in their recent interview with Lex Fridman they argued that life as an extension is too limiting. The main reason we criticise Microsoft for doing this and not them is just their size and market dominance. Why jump through hoops to make competitors better able to hotwire their own AI into VSCode, or hotwire Copilot into their own IDE, when it's easier to iterate fast and remain unpredictable?
- falcor84 2y ago
  > Why jump through hoops to make competitors better able Because that is the competitive philosophy that allowed VS Code win in this space. It fits with that great quote from Bill Gates: "A platform is when the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company that creates it." By having VS Code give a priority to another MS/GitHub product that they aren't willing to give competitors, they're diminishing VS Code's value as a platform, and encouraging competitors to build their own IDEs rather than building on top of it.
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    That just tells you where in the EEE lifecycle you are. Embrace, extend, and extinguish `---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extin...
    - naikrovek 2y ago
      Embracing, extending, and extinguishing their own tool? Please consider what you are going to say before you say it.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - yencabulator 2y ago
        No, an ecosystem and culture of open source software development tooling.
      - EatFlamingDeath 2y ago
        Oh my sweet summer child...
        naikrovek 2y ago
        do you have anything respectful to say, or just this disrespectful, dismissive response? If you want to have a discussion, then let's have one. Step one is to have the discussion in good faith. If you're not capable of that, then don't respond at all.
      - serial_dev 2y ago
        > Please consider what you are going to say before you say it. Do as I say , not as I do?
      - sshine 2y ago
        > Embracing, extending, and extinguishing their own tool? Consider how C# support in VSCode got nerfed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 There was another event only a few months ago, but I can't find the reference.
- nar001 2y ago
  You're mistaken, Visual Studio Code is open source not Visual Studio, they're different
- naikrovek 2y ago
  > The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCodium The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCode. The VSCodium people simply build it for you and package it for you.
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    The fact that you can access source code allowing you to build a telemetry-free version of VSCode doesn’t magically make what’s actually distributed open source and telemetry free. The sole thing you can actually download and run while calling it VS Code - a trademarked name - is neither open source nor telemetry-free.
  - sshine 2y ago
    Congratulations, you've won a car! If you choose to drive it, it's full price.
gortok 2y ago
> Visual studio is open source. No it’s not. Visual Studio is a proprietary product and the latest version is Visual Studio 2022. Visual Studio Code is open source, and it is about as close to Visual Studio as Lightning is to Lightning Bug.
peeters 2y ago
Competitors compete in the same market. The market in this case is VS Code extensions, with the consumers in that market being the user base of VS Code, not the users of some fork of VS Code. You can't point your competitors to a different market and then reasonably claim to be open to competition.
lenkite 2y ago
Many things like C# Dev Kit are closed source. M$ is slowly but surely moving to the extinguish phase in its takeover workflow.
- neonsunset 2y ago
  Sigh. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41891653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41891653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41639205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41639205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41384888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41384888 Now, I'm not a big fan of VS Code as of lately. I find the changes, that first broke Customize UI + MonkeyPatch extensions to make it look not completely shit on macOS, and now the change that broke APC too that replaced the first two, completely user-hostile and the PM response in GH issues to that very poor. But this specific lie about what is OSS and what isn't, and how it's used annoys me a lot. You are not helping with the problem.

serial_dev 2y ago

But Cursor had to fork, so as a developer wanting to use them, you need to give up VS Code and install a new code editor, and you can’t just install a plugin. Very few can maintain a fork and get enough people to use their fork. Also what happens if you have two products that needed a fork? You can’t use them both. I don’t know if it’s legal or not, IANAL, but it feels definitely anti competitive.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sshine 2y ago

> Visual studio is open source Sort of. The core is, and the installable binaries with telemetry and properietary extensions are not. The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCodium: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ > Didn't cusor fork it and is building it features directly into the fork? Yes, in their recent interview with Lex Fridman they argued that life as an extension is too limiting. The main reason we criticise Microsoft for doing this and not them is just their size and market dominance. Why jump through hoops to make competitors better able to hotwire their own AI into VSCode, or hotwire Copilot into their own IDE, when it's easier to iterate fast and remain unpredictable?

falcor84 2y ago
> Why jump through hoops to make competitors better able Because that is the competitive philosophy that allowed VS Code win in this space. It fits with that great quote from Bill Gates: "A platform is when the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company that creates it." By having VS Code give a priority to another MS/GitHub product that they aren't willing to give competitors, they're diminishing VS Code's value as a platform, and encouraging competitors to build their own IDEs rather than building on top of it.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  That just tells you where in the EEE lifecycle you are. Embrace, extend, and extinguish `---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extin...
  - naikrovek 2y ago
    Embracing, extending, and extinguishing their own tool? Please consider what you are going to say before you say it.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - yencabulator 2y ago
      No, an ecosystem and culture of open source software development tooling.
    - EatFlamingDeath 2y ago
      Oh my sweet summer child...
      - naikrovek 2y ago
        do you have anything respectful to say, or just this disrespectful, dismissive response? If you want to have a discussion, then let's have one. Step one is to have the discussion in good faith. If you're not capable of that, then don't respond at all.
    - serial_dev 2y ago
      > Please consider what you are going to say before you say it. Do as I say , not as I do?
    - sshine 2y ago
      > Embracing, extending, and extinguishing their own tool? Consider how C# support in VSCode got nerfed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 There was another event only a few months ago, but I can't find the reference.
nar001 2y ago
You're mistaken, Visual Studio Code is open source not Visual Studio, they're different
naikrovek 2y ago
> The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCodium The open source, telemetry-free version of VSCode is called VSCode. The VSCodium people simply build it for you and package it for you.
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  The fact that you can access source code allowing you to build a telemetry-free version of VSCode doesn’t magically make what’s actually distributed open source and telemetry free. The sole thing you can actually download and run while calling it VS Code - a trademarked name - is neither open source nor telemetry-free.
- sshine 2y ago
  Congratulations, you've won a car! If you choose to drive it, it's full price.

gortok 2y ago

> Visual studio is open source. No it’s not. Visual Studio is a proprietary product and the latest version is Visual Studio 2022. Visual Studio Code is open source, and it is about as close to Visual Studio as Lightning is to Lightning Bug.

peeters 2y ago

Competitors compete in the same market. The market in this case is VS Code extensions, with the consumers in that market being the user base of VS Code, not the users of some fork of VS Code. You can't point your competitors to a different market and then reasonably claim to be open to competition.

lenkite 2y ago

Many things like C# Dev Kit are closed source. M$ is slowly but surely moving to the extinguish phase in its takeover workflow.

neonsunset 2y ago
Sigh. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41891653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41891653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41639205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41639205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41384888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41384888 Now, I'm not a big fan of VS Code as of lately. I find the changes, that first broke Customize UI + MonkeyPatch extensions to make it look not completely shit on macOS, and now the change that broke APC too that replaced the first two, completely user-hostile and the PM response in GH issues to that very poor. But this specific lie about what is OSS and what isn't, and how it's used annoys me a lot. You are not helping with the problem.