5 ms·

This is the problem. Tech monoculture is going to persist so long as you have stuff like this be exalted, rather than condemned. Of all the cultures for this

by jmduke 14y ago

This is the problem. Tech monoculture is going to persist so long as you have stuff like this be exalted, rather than condemned. Of all the cultures for this industry to embrace, gaming -- where players exploit the veil of anonymity to be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. -- is one of the poorest choices. I like programming, a whole lot. I don't really like gaming . That shouldn't be a problem.

blindhippo 14y ago
They are pre-screening - they aren't looking for you. So it's only a problem for people who don't like gaming. If the entire tech world did this, then yes, it would be a problem. I like gaming - but I really don't want to work for a place where gaming dictates the conversation. So in this case, I know I wouldn't want to work at this outfit... so for me it's not a problem, it's helpful information.
praxulus 14y ago
>Of all the cultures for this industry to embrace, the internet -- where users exploit the veil of anonymity to be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. -- is one of the poorest choices. FTFY You're saying that just because other gamers are sexist, racist, and homophobic, the entire tech industry has to avoid any mention of it even if they genuinely find the games fun and entertaining? The advertisement itself isn't offensive, so your argument is just as absurd as berating tech companies for recruiting on online forums, or even the internet in general. Companies have cultures that might not be all-inclusive. I heard of a company (I want to say Palantir, but don't quote me on that) where breaking the build required taking a shot. Non-drinkers wouldn't fit in very well, but while the company was still small it was worth it to have a strong culture and keep their existing employees in a close-knit group. Like my sibling said, you wouldn't like working here anyway, and I'm sure there are places with a strong culture that you would fit into, and that I might not.
patio11 14y ago
There's enough actual sexism/racism/etc in the industry to worry about that, rather than worrying about totally innocent things which enjoy massive support from a lot of people, including people of good will whose ears you will require the next time actually outrageous behavior happens. If one were, hypothetically, of the mind that the cultural signifiers of geeky tech guys needed to be demonized to avoid scaring e.g. women out of the profession, one would be advised to tiptoe around that conclusion and avoid explicitly linking those cultural signifiers to evil behavior, because one will shortly be forced into making arguments like "Mentioning Diablo 3 in a job interview is spiritually akin to sexual harassment." One will lose those arguments, in a flamboyantly destructive fashion, and the next time one makes well-founded arguments such as "Corporate outings at a strip club are not appropriate", one will be remembered as some variant of an "implacable harpy who would be equally offended if the meeting had mentioned Dungeons and Dragons." P.S. I am probably not the guy who you'd want as your #1 ally on this issue, but I know that guy, and he literally has Warhammer tattoos. If you're making an anti-Xism movement which can't accept him as an ally because he's culturally alien to you, your anti-Xism movement will have less success than you probably want it to have.
- roguecoder 14y ago
  It isn't that cultural signifiers of geeky tech guys are demonized; it is that racist and sexist video games like this are grossly inaccurate signifiers of geeky tech guys. Equating the two unfairly tars us with the brush of every foul-mouthed 17-year-old on XBox live.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Diablo 3 is a racist sexist video game? I think we may be a little far 'round the bend here.
    - loumf 14y ago
      The original comment was > players exploit the veil of anonymity to be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc Not that the game was racist or sexist. Not a gamer, but have heard that the verbal communication on some networked games is rough. Not sure if that should reflect on the game, though. It's a phenomenon of anonymous systems (see chat roulette for example)
      - trafficlight 14y ago
        That's not related to any specific game. It does show up exponentially more in games where you are paired up with an anonymous matchmaking system. The majority of online games on consoles use that type of game finding. Alternatively, games like Counterstrike or Minecraft are made up of servers that are privately run. Most of these are actively moderated by the owners and/or a consistent group of players. If you don't follow the rules and guidelines of the server you are kicked and banned. It can take a while to find a server you like, but once you do, the gameplay experience is vastly better.
guard-of-terra 14y ago
Some players also happen to be fun, helping and nice. Some more players like to look tough but they're good people underneath. If you're expecting everyone in the world to behave, like if they still were in a boring classroom, and is going to discriminate them otherwise - this is not good then.

by jmduke 14y ago

blindhippo 14y ago

They are pre-screening - they aren't looking for you. So it's only a problem for people who don't like gaming. If the entire tech world did this, then yes, it would be a problem. I like gaming - but I really don't want to work for a place where gaming dictates the conversation. So in this case, I know I wouldn't want to work at this outfit... so for me it's not a problem, it's helpful information.

praxulus 14y ago

>Of all the cultures for this industry to embrace, the internet -- where users exploit the veil of anonymity to be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. -- is one of the poorest choices. FTFY You're saying that just because other gamers are sexist, racist, and homophobic, the entire tech industry has to avoid any mention of it even if they genuinely find the games fun and entertaining? The advertisement itself isn't offensive, so your argument is just as absurd as berating tech companies for recruiting on online forums, or even the internet in general. Companies have cultures that might not be all-inclusive. I heard of a company (I want to say Palantir, but don't quote me on that) where breaking the build required taking a shot. Non-drinkers wouldn't fit in very well, but while the company was still small it was worth it to have a strong culture and keep their existing employees in a close-knit group. Like my sibling said, you wouldn't like working here anyway, and I'm sure there are places with a strong culture that you would fit into, and that I might not.

patio11 14y ago

There's enough actual sexism/racism/etc in the industry to worry about that, rather than worrying about totally innocent things which enjoy massive support from a lot of people, including people of good will whose ears you will require the next time actually outrageous behavior happens. If one were, hypothetically, of the mind that the cultural signifiers of geeky tech guys needed to be demonized to avoid scaring e.g. women out of the profession, one would be advised to tiptoe around that conclusion and avoid explicitly linking those cultural signifiers to evil behavior, because one will shortly be forced into making arguments like "Mentioning Diablo 3 in a job interview is spiritually akin to sexual harassment." One will lose those arguments, in a flamboyantly destructive fashion, and the next time one makes well-founded arguments such as "Corporate outings at a strip club are not appropriate", one will be remembered as some variant of an "implacable harpy who would be equally offended if the meeting had mentioned Dungeons and Dragons." P.S. I am probably not the guy who you'd want as your #1 ally on this issue, but I know that guy, and he literally has Warhammer tattoos. If you're making an anti-Xism movement which can't accept him as an ally because he's culturally alien to you, your anti-Xism movement will have less success than you probably want it to have.

roguecoder 14y ago
It isn't that cultural signifiers of geeky tech guys are demonized; it is that racist and sexist video games like this are grossly inaccurate signifiers of geeky tech guys. Equating the two unfairly tars us with the brush of every foul-mouthed 17-year-old on XBox live.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Diablo 3 is a racist sexist video game? I think we may be a little far 'round the bend here.
  - loumf 14y ago
    The original comment was > players exploit the veil of anonymity to be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc Not that the game was racist or sexist. Not a gamer, but have heard that the verbal communication on some networked games is rough. Not sure if that should reflect on the game, though. It's a phenomenon of anonymous systems (see chat roulette for example)
    - trafficlight 14y ago
      That's not related to any specific game. It does show up exponentially more in games where you are paired up with an anonymous matchmaking system. The majority of online games on consoles use that type of game finding. Alternatively, games like Counterstrike or Minecraft are made up of servers that are privately run. Most of these are actively moderated by the owners and/or a consistent group of players. If you don't follow the rules and guidelines of the server you are kicked and banned. It can take a while to find a server you like, but once you do, the gameplay experience is vastly better.

guard-of-terra 14y ago

Some players also happen to be fun, helping and nice. Some more players like to look tough but they're good people underneath. If you're expecting everyone in the world to behave, like if they still were in a boring classroom, and is going to discriminate them otherwise - this is not good then.