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Is the border an actual problem though? Specifically speaking to the US border. Is migration the number one problem that Americans struggle with? Or even in th

Is the border an actual problem though? Specifically speaking to the US border. Is migration the number one problem that Americans struggle with? Or even in the top ten concerns, your average American holds? I have not had a single issue with migration or an immigrant, ever. I've never met a single person, in the US, with a material issue related to migration or immigration. I have never felt worried about being near a migrant/immigrant based on who they are or their behavior.

nathancahill 2y ago
[flagged]
i80and 2y ago
Makes for an excellent easy-to-sell bogeyman, though.
giantg2 2y ago
I guess you could guage how necessary it is based on your opinion of how useful you find customs, import/export restrictions, etc.
jcranmer 2y ago
> Is migration the number one problem that Americans struggle with? Or even in the top ten concerns, your average American holds? Per recent polling [1], it's the sixth most important issue. It's consistently been raised as one of the top concerns in polling data going back as far as I have political consciousness, although a decent part of the existence of that concern is effectively a dog whistle for racism. > Is the border an actual problem though? The border itself isn't the problem; the actual problem lays in the extremely fucked-up nature of the US immigration system (and the actual problems are almost nothing like what people are complaining about). Even for as long as immigration has been a major political concern in the US, the border "solutions" have for as long been lampooned for the fact that they are doing absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem, even as politicians double down on proposing harsher solutions to fix the thing that isn't the problem. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/09/09/issues-and-the-2024-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/09/09/issues-and-t...
drivebyhooting 2y ago
It is a problem if you want welfare and government health care programs. An influx of unskilled hungry huddled masses that don’t even pay into the tax system will drag everyone’s living standards down. Even if they DO pay taxes it is likely that on average illegal immigration would burden the social safety net. And none of this gets into the second order effects of immigrants increasing the supply of labor.
- consteval 2y ago
  I don't follow this. I would imagine an influx of extremely cheap labor would raise everyone else's living standards, not lower them. Because everything is cheaper to produce. That's why Dubai has extremely extravagant places put right next to pseudo-slave's shanties.
  - drivebyhooting 2y ago
    Everyone? You can’t imagine a situation where the surplus from the cheap labor is captured by a few capitalists while the rest suffer? I’m not saying that is happening but it doesn’t take much imagination to see it could happen. Also if you actually have to interface with clearly illegal cheap labor (landscaping, construction, low quality catering) you’ll see the pattern: a kingpin immigrant who only hires other immigrants with little to no English and a preference for being paid in cash.
    - consteval 2y ago
      The "few capitalists" in this scenario is the domestic people.
      - drivebyhooting 2y ago
        Definitely not all of them. And you haven’t addressed the elephant in the room. Practically all the “low skill” manual labor is done by poorly integrated, cash-only immigrants. Is this acceptable?

nathancahill 2y ago

[flagged]

i80and 2y ago

Makes for an excellent easy-to-sell bogeyman, though.

giantg2 2y ago

I guess you could guage how necessary it is based on your opinion of how useful you find customs, import/export restrictions, etc.

jcranmer 2y ago

> Is migration the number one problem that Americans struggle with? Or even in the top ten concerns, your average American holds? Per recent polling [1], it's the sixth most important issue. It's consistently been raised as one of the top concerns in polling data going back as far as I have political consciousness, although a decent part of the existence of that concern is effectively a dog whistle for racism. > Is the border an actual problem though? The border itself isn't the problem; the actual problem lays in the extremely fucked-up nature of the US immigration system (and the actual problems are almost nothing like what people are complaining about). Even for as long as immigration has been a major political concern in the US, the border "solutions" have for as long been lampooned for the fact that they are doing absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem, even as politicians double down on proposing harsher solutions to fix the thing that isn't the problem. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/09/09/issues-and-the-2024-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/09/09/issues-and-t...

drivebyhooting 2y ago

It is a problem if you want welfare and government health care programs. An influx of unskilled hungry huddled masses that don’t even pay into the tax system will drag everyone’s living standards down. Even if they DO pay taxes it is likely that on average illegal immigration would burden the social safety net. And none of this gets into the second order effects of immigrants increasing the supply of labor.

consteval 2y ago
I don't follow this. I would imagine an influx of extremely cheap labor would raise everyone else's living standards, not lower them. Because everything is cheaper to produce. That's why Dubai has extremely extravagant places put right next to pseudo-slave's shanties.
- drivebyhooting 2y ago
  Everyone? You can’t imagine a situation where the surplus from the cheap labor is captured by a few capitalists while the rest suffer? I’m not saying that is happening but it doesn’t take much imagination to see it could happen. Also if you actually have to interface with clearly illegal cheap labor (landscaping, construction, low quality catering) you’ll see the pattern: a kingpin immigrant who only hires other immigrants with little to no English and a preference for being paid in cash.
  - consteval 2y ago
    The "few capitalists" in this scenario is the domestic people.
    - drivebyhooting 2y ago
      Definitely not all of them. And you haven’t addressed the elephant in the room. Practically all the “low skill” manual labor is done by poorly integrated, cash-only immigrants. Is this acceptable?