3 ms·

Yeah, I've always looked at the extreme reaction authorities have to threats of violence as a pretty significant DOS risk. I'm surprised this isn't more common.

zdragnar 2y ago
Are the reactions extreme? You're effectively weighing convenience against fatalities. It would seem to me that the reaction is rather reasonable. Neither judgement changes the fact that the reaction itself definitely makes DOS possible, of course. I imagine the reason it isn't more common is that the punishment for making terroristic threats tends to be quite high (especially against airports), so you need to be very certain you won't get caught doing it.
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  Bomb threat reactions are normally justified, but swatting reactions (and police reactions in general) are still too violent and ineffective. Not to mention that technology is making spoofing of threats easier and easier.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    Do you have a source for that, or is this opinion? I’m also not so worried about SWATting being possible - I want a ratio of times where the extreme response was warranted versus unwarranted.
    - curmudgeon22 2y ago
      I don't have a ratio, but certainly was an increasing problem pre pandemic. > By 2019, there were an estimated 1,000 swatting incidents domestically each yeay https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-formed-national-database-track-prevent-swatting-rcna91722 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-formed-national-dat...
    - okasaki 2y ago
      It seems to me that that would be very difficult to determine in retrospect. In any case, I think we can agree that militarized police breaching through a door and going in with guns drawn like they're going to assassinate Bin Laden all due to a phone call is dumb and shouldn't happen They should send a drone to look into the window, or turn one of the dozen devices in each room into a microphone, or perform any kind of other investigation first before they do that.
    - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
      Sources don’t change what is/isn’t opinion, and you can want that ratio but that information isn’t currently available. It is however a fact that it’s on the rise and enough of an issue that the FBI has started a database of fake SWAT calls, as linked by another reply. It is also fact that between text-to-voice MLMs, phone spoofing, and IP-masking services that it’s becoming increasingly harder to ID wrongdoers. One could say my distain of a violent pseudo-militarized force who asymmetrically apply the law depending on who’s a “blueblood” is an opinion, but I feel that is both obvious as an opinion and a well-supported stance given the rise in police-on-innocent violence.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    This is case showing us they are not.
    - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
      Cool! This is only obvious after the fact, and I would much rather have my flight delayed than explode midair :)
lesuorac 2y ago
I mean, if the phone company can figure out who to bill for that bomb threat I'm pretty sure they can hand over whomever made the call. They might not do that for you and I but I think at the state level they have more tools. Of course the person might be in a foreign country but then it's really don't let far away foreigners call in bomb threats.
echelon 2y ago
> I'm surprised this isn't more common. The surveillance in the US is too good and the penalties are too steep. If you try this, you'd be looking at 20 years in federal prison. This incident also serves as a counter to the "security theater" argument some make against the TSA. The TSA catches most bomb, knife, and gun threats and makes the risk of getting caught too large to attempt. Hijackings used to be common in the US. Not anymore.
- anonCoffee 2y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration#Criticism_and_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Admi...
  - echelon 2y ago
    Finding vulnerabilities is exactly what red teams should be doing. The data speaks for itself: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240246/aircraft-hijackings-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240246/aircraft-hijacki... For paywall purposes: https://imgur.com/a/4txjjyF https://imgur.com/a/4txjjyF Seems effective to me.

zdragnar 2y ago

Are the reactions extreme? You're effectively weighing convenience against fatalities. It would seem to me that the reaction is rather reasonable. Neither judgement changes the fact that the reaction itself definitely makes DOS possible, of course. I imagine the reason it isn't more common is that the punishment for making terroristic threats tends to be quite high (especially against airports), so you need to be very certain you won't get caught doing it.

tourmalinetaco 2y ago
Bomb threat reactions are normally justified, but swatting reactions (and police reactions in general) are still too violent and ineffective. Not to mention that technology is making spoofing of threats easier and easier.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Do you have a source for that, or is this opinion? I’m also not so worried about SWATting being possible - I want a ratio of times where the extreme response was warranted versus unwarranted.
  - curmudgeon22 2y ago
    I don't have a ratio, but certainly was an increasing problem pre pandemic. > By 2019, there were an estimated 1,000 swatting incidents domestically each yeay https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-formed-national-database-track-prevent-swatting-rcna91722 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-formed-national-dat...
  - okasaki 2y ago
    It seems to me that that would be very difficult to determine in retrospect. In any case, I think we can agree that militarized police breaching through a door and going in with guns drawn like they're going to assassinate Bin Laden all due to a phone call is dumb and shouldn't happen They should send a drone to look into the window, or turn one of the dozen devices in each room into a microphone, or perform any kind of other investigation first before they do that.
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    Sources don’t change what is/isn’t opinion, and you can want that ratio but that information isn’t currently available. It is however a fact that it’s on the rise and enough of an issue that the FBI has started a database of fake SWAT calls, as linked by another reply. It is also fact that between text-to-voice MLMs, phone spoofing, and IP-masking services that it’s becoming increasingly harder to ID wrongdoers. One could say my distain of a violent pseudo-militarized force who asymmetrically apply the law depending on who’s a “blueblood” is an opinion, but I feel that is both obvious as an opinion and a well-supported stance given the rise in police-on-innocent violence.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  This is case showing us they are not.
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    Cool! This is only obvious after the fact, and I would much rather have my flight delayed than explode midair :)

lesuorac 2y ago

I mean, if the phone company can figure out who to bill for that bomb threat I'm pretty sure they can hand over whomever made the call. They might not do that for you and I but I think at the state level they have more tools. Of course the person might be in a foreign country but then it's really don't let far away foreigners call in bomb threats.

echelon 2y ago

> I'm surprised this isn't more common. The surveillance in the US is too good and the penalties are too steep. If you try this, you'd be looking at 20 years in federal prison. This incident also serves as a counter to the "security theater" argument some make against the TSA. The TSA catches most bomb, knife, and gun threats and makes the risk of getting caught too large to attempt. Hijackings used to be common in the US. Not anymore.

anonCoffee 2y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration#Criticism_and_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Admi...
- echelon 2y ago
  Finding vulnerabilities is exactly what red teams should be doing. The data speaks for itself: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240246/aircraft-hijackings-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240246/aircraft-hijacki... For paywall purposes: https://imgur.com/a/4txjjyF https://imgur.com/a/4txjjyF Seems effective to me.