3 ms·

Huh, considering the thorough checking that CRPF guy did for my backpack to finally take out a plumber's tape and throwaway. Is government/ airlines security no

by geodel 2y ago

Huh, considering the thorough checking that CRPF guy did for my backpack to finally take out a plumber's tape and throwaway. Is government/ airlines security not confident about their security procedures. edit: CRPF -> CISF Thanks to @db1234 for pointing it out.

mplewis 2y ago
In the USA, the TSA fails to detect threats 95% of the time. "Not confident" is an understatement: we know that these procedures do not work.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Note in terms of sources for this number, lots of articles around 2015 discussing the 95% failure rate. This article is from 2 years later, 2017, and the failure rate was still abysmal: https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-...
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  This is the stupidest thing about the TSA though: On one hand, it's security theater. A real threat does not find it intimidating. However, if someone were to abolish the TSA for being security theater, do you have confidence that people wouldn't immediately start bringing knives? It's security theater that simultaneously fulfills a deterrence purpose; and any politician that dares get rid of it, will be blamed for anything and everything thereafter.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    (Separate comment, due to being controversial) I think the moral of the above story, although we are loath to admit it because it's so stupid, is that cheap theatrical security measures actually work surprisingly well. Whether it be $5 Master Locks, the deadbolt on your door, easily guessed passwords, or even DRM. No strength against a determined attacker, but they do mostly "work." Even a stupid password like "p@ssw0rd" prevents 98%+ of attacks compared to just a hypothetical password-free "Log in as Jake" button. If it stops 98% of casual attacks, it can be simultaneously stupid and yet valuable.
  - mikestew 2y ago
    However, if someone were to abolish the TSA for being security theater, do you have confidence that people wouldn't immediately start bringing knives? Your point is well-taken, but before 9/11 I probably carried a pocket knife on nearly every flight I took. ‘cuz people carry pocket knives, at least in the Midwest. Throw the little 2.5” blade in the bin before going through the metal detector, pick it up on the way out. Obviously I don’t do that anymore. Additionally, you used to get a real steak knife in first class, bigger than the knife I carried. George Carlin even did a bit about that decades ago.
    - bubblethink 2y ago
      And not just flights, all government offices that have any security prohibit any knives. I used to have a swiss knife at most times on me, and I went to the social security office to get a card (one of the first gov. offices I visited in the US). They wouldn't allow it, but also wouldn't hold it for you. I had to go out and hide it in the bushes like an idiot.
- more_corn 2y ago
  This sounds strange to me given the number of guns they confiscate. Go ahead and try to sneak a firearm or an explosive through. Pretty sure they’ll catch you more than 5% of the time. In fact I’m pretty sure they’ll catch a gun every time. And the surface explosive detectors probably are contractually tested and if their failure rates go too high they lose the contract. What acceptable failure rates would you write into that contract? Don’t answer that you’re clearly not a reliable interlocutor. For myself I’d target single digit failure rates. I’d guess the contract says greater than 95% accuracy. In conclusion: bullshit.
  - scotty79 2y ago
    Maybe most of the guns they confiscate were not brought there intentionally.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      I’ll leave aside for the moment who accidentally brings a on through an airport security check. Heck I don’t even keep a mini-multitool in any bag I might casually bring on as carry-on, somewhat to my annoyance. But if you do happen to have an oops firearm in your carryon I’m not sure I care if it was a mistake or on purpose.
      - scotty79 2y ago
        I'm not saying those guns shouldn't be confiscated. I'm just saying that how much they confiscate says nothing about their capability to confiscate gun brought with malicious intent. There's way more stupid people with guns than malicious ones.
db1234 2y ago
nit; Indian airport security is handled by CISF and not CRPF.
- geodel 2y ago
  Absolutely right. My mistake. CRPF is riots and all.
  - bubblethink 2y ago
    Don't say that to a CISF guy. They get really mad. I once interned at a national lab and there was a snafu due to which I couldn't get in. So I had to call my advisor from the main entrance, and I told him that the watchman isn't letting me in. The security guy overheard it and threw a fit about how he isn't a watchman but a central gov. employee.
    - geodel 2y ago
      Absolutely. In Indian hierarchy one can blast watchmen for not doing their work properly and CISF can blast a passenger for not doing their work properly. So they are indeed powerful. One can see that in their swagger. They are there to serve government not the passengers.
bubblethink 2y ago
Hate flying through India. They make TSA look like nice guys. Apparently, you can't carry vapes in carry-on and you can't check them in either due to batteries. So you can't take vapes at all, cigarettes are fine though. I have a two piece vape, so I put the liquid bit in check-in and the bottom battery in carry on. And he still confiscated it. Got into an argument of how it's just a battery and that why stop there; after-all everything can be used to make a bomb. He got mad that I said the b word. I let him have the battery as I didn't want to miss the flight.
- wcoenen 2y ago
  Vape batteries tend to be low quality and are notorious for having thermal runaway incidents. https://tobaccoreporter.com/2024/09/10/vapes-major-culprit-in-battery-incidents/ https://tobaccoreporter.com/2024/09/10/vapes-major-culprit-i...
ignoramous 2y ago
No single entity can know what is compromised. Passengers aren't the only thing getting on a plane.
- geodel 2y ago
  So security checking is for passengers and their luggage. Others can just walk directly in to the plane?
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Passenger aircraft carry cargo. <https://www.dhs.gov/archive/science-and-technology/air-cargo https://www.dhs.gov/archive/science-and-technology/air-cargo> Cargo is being weaponised: "Russia suspected of planting device on plane that caused UK warehouse fire" (2024-10-16) <https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/16/russia-suspected-of-planting-device-on-plane-that-caused-uk-warehouse-fire https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/16/russia-suspe...> (That's a story about a cargo-only transport mode, but weaponised cargo might also be carried aboard a commercial passenger flight.)

by geodel 2y ago

mplewis 2y ago

In the USA, the TSA fails to detect threats 95% of the time. "Not confident" is an understatement: we know that these procedures do not work.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Note in terms of sources for this number, lots of articles around 2015 discussing the 95% failure rate. This article is from 2 years later, 2017, and the failure rate was still abysmal: https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-...
gjsman-1000 2y ago
This is the stupidest thing about the TSA though: On one hand, it's security theater. A real threat does not find it intimidating. However, if someone were to abolish the TSA for being security theater, do you have confidence that people wouldn't immediately start bringing knives? It's security theater that simultaneously fulfills a deterrence purpose; and any politician that dares get rid of it, will be blamed for anything and everything thereafter.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  (Separate comment, due to being controversial) I think the moral of the above story, although we are loath to admit it because it's so stupid, is that cheap theatrical security measures actually work surprisingly well. Whether it be $5 Master Locks, the deadbolt on your door, easily guessed passwords, or even DRM. No strength against a determined attacker, but they do mostly "work." Even a stupid password like "p@ssw0rd" prevents 98%+ of attacks compared to just a hypothetical password-free "Log in as Jake" button. If it stops 98% of casual attacks, it can be simultaneously stupid and yet valuable.
- mikestew 2y ago
  However, if someone were to abolish the TSA for being security theater, do you have confidence that people wouldn't immediately start bringing knives? Your point is well-taken, but before 9/11 I probably carried a pocket knife on nearly every flight I took. ‘cuz people carry pocket knives, at least in the Midwest. Throw the little 2.5” blade in the bin before going through the metal detector, pick it up on the way out. Obviously I don’t do that anymore. Additionally, you used to get a real steak knife in first class, bigger than the knife I carried. George Carlin even did a bit about that decades ago.
  - bubblethink 2y ago
    And not just flights, all government offices that have any security prohibit any knives. I used to have a swiss knife at most times on me, and I went to the social security office to get a card (one of the first gov. offices I visited in the US). They wouldn't allow it, but also wouldn't hold it for you. I had to go out and hide it in the bushes like an idiot.
more_corn 2y ago
This sounds strange to me given the number of guns they confiscate. Go ahead and try to sneak a firearm or an explosive through. Pretty sure they’ll catch you more than 5% of the time. In fact I’m pretty sure they’ll catch a gun every time. And the surface explosive detectors probably are contractually tested and if their failure rates go too high they lose the contract. What acceptable failure rates would you write into that contract? Don’t answer that you’re clearly not a reliable interlocutor. For myself I’d target single digit failure rates. I’d guess the contract says greater than 95% accuracy. In conclusion: bullshit.
- scotty79 2y ago
  Maybe most of the guns they confiscate were not brought there intentionally.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I’ll leave aside for the moment who accidentally brings a on through an airport security check. Heck I don’t even keep a mini-multitool in any bag I might casually bring on as carry-on, somewhat to my annoyance. But if you do happen to have an oops firearm in your carryon I’m not sure I care if it was a mistake or on purpose.
    - scotty79 2y ago
      I'm not saying those guns shouldn't be confiscated. I'm just saying that how much they confiscate says nothing about their capability to confiscate gun brought with malicious intent. There's way more stupid people with guns than malicious ones.

db1234 2y ago

nit; Indian airport security is handled by CISF and not CRPF.

geodel 2y ago
Absolutely right. My mistake. CRPF is riots and all.
- bubblethink 2y ago
  Don't say that to a CISF guy. They get really mad. I once interned at a national lab and there was a snafu due to which I couldn't get in. So I had to call my advisor from the main entrance, and I told him that the watchman isn't letting me in. The security guy overheard it and threw a fit about how he isn't a watchman but a central gov. employee.
  - geodel 2y ago
    Absolutely. In Indian hierarchy one can blast watchmen for not doing their work properly and CISF can blast a passenger for not doing their work properly. So they are indeed powerful. One can see that in their swagger. They are there to serve government not the passengers.

bubblethink 2y ago

Hate flying through India. They make TSA look like nice guys. Apparently, you can't carry vapes in carry-on and you can't check them in either due to batteries. So you can't take vapes at all, cigarettes are fine though. I have a two piece vape, so I put the liquid bit in check-in and the bottom battery in carry on. And he still confiscated it. Got into an argument of how it's just a battery and that why stop there; after-all everything can be used to make a bomb. He got mad that I said the b word. I let him have the battery as I didn't want to miss the flight.

wcoenen 2y ago
Vape batteries tend to be low quality and are notorious for having thermal runaway incidents. https://tobaccoreporter.com/2024/09/10/vapes-major-culprit-in-battery-incidents/ https://tobaccoreporter.com/2024/09/10/vapes-major-culprit-i...

ignoramous 2y ago

No single entity can know what is compromised. Passengers aren't the only thing getting on a plane.

geodel 2y ago
So security checking is for passengers and their luggage. Others can just walk directly in to the plane?
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Passenger aircraft carry cargo. <https://www.dhs.gov/archive/science-and-technology/air-cargo https://www.dhs.gov/archive/science-and-technology/air-cargo> Cargo is being weaponised: "Russia suspected of planting device on plane that caused UK warehouse fire" (2024-10-16) <https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/16/russia-suspected-of-planting-device-on-plane-that-caused-uk-warehouse-fire https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/16/russia-suspe...> (That's a story about a cargo-only transport mode, but weaponised cargo might also be carried aboard a commercial passenger flight.)