4 ms·

Yet many people attempt K2 summit knowing the probabilities of death. Homelessness pales in comparison to death. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jw8GHgyiqw ht

Yet many people attempt K2 summit knowing the probabilities of death. Homelessness pales in comparison to death. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jw8GHgyiqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jw8GHgyiqw

ndileas 2y ago
I wouldn't state that unequivocally. I think for many people, homelessness (really, the pain, shame, and indignity associated with it) is worse than a "glorious" or meaningful death. Certainly, many people's actions show this to be true, if you believe to the idea of revealed preferences.
delusional 2y ago
Certainly objectively, but I think we have an odd misjudgment when it comes to death. Surely nothing I get out of skiing is worth the increased risk of death it also imposes. Yet I do it anyway, without any hesitation.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Unless you do fairly extreme stuff I suspect the risk is more about driving to ski areas in winter on a regular basis
- jacobr1 2y ago
  While we can compare tail-risks (some lower probability risks and many orders of magnitude more likely than others) I think most people, intuitively, use something like a 1 in a 100 risk of a death (over a lifetime) or 1 in 10,000 acute chance. Anything over the floor is fair game, and the specifics are more around what is culturally acceptable. For comparison the lifetime risk from driving is something like 1 in 100, and from skiing (1 in 2000) making some assumption of average participation in both.
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  Compare that to society's extreme definition of safety. Vehicles will be allowed on road only if it results in less than 100 deaths per year. Yet, we as a soceity has decided that certain risks are worth taking compared to the benefit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Fi8I-qOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Fi8I-qOk
  - delusional 2y ago
    I recognize that you didn't claim a connection, but the proximity of the arguments could lead a casual reader to conclude that one exists. I very strongly want to distance myself and my argument from the ones put forward in the video. Furthermore, I also strongly shun the rhetoric in that video that mostly reminds me of a Ben Shapiro "owns" video. I do not find that kind wall building useful or good.
    - jumping_frog 2y ago
      > It all comes down to the consequences of failure. If failure means homelessness, avoid failure. I was specifically countering this assumption. Our human mind doesn't have absolute hierarchy of preferences, they might even be circular (A is preferred to B, B is preferred to C and C is preferred to A). If I asked the mountaineer, would he like to be homeless. He would say no. But his context specific wish is to die on a mountain trying to summit which contradicts his desire to not be homeless.

ndileas 2y ago

I wouldn't state that unequivocally. I think for many people, homelessness (really, the pain, shame, and indignity associated with it) is worse than a "glorious" or meaningful death. Certainly, many people's actions show this to be true, if you believe to the idea of revealed preferences.

delusional 2y ago

Certainly objectively, but I think we have an odd misjudgment when it comes to death. Surely nothing I get out of skiing is worth the increased risk of death it also imposes. Yet I do it anyway, without any hesitation.

ghaff 2y ago
Unless you do fairly extreme stuff I suspect the risk is more about driving to ski areas in winter on a regular basis
jacobr1 2y ago
While we can compare tail-risks (some lower probability risks and many orders of magnitude more likely than others) I think most people, intuitively, use something like a 1 in a 100 risk of a death (over a lifetime) or 1 in 10,000 acute chance. Anything over the floor is fair game, and the specifics are more around what is culturally acceptable. For comparison the lifetime risk from driving is something like 1 in 100, and from skiing (1 in 2000) making some assumption of average participation in both.
jumping_frog 2y ago
Compare that to society's extreme definition of safety. Vehicles will be allowed on road only if it results in less than 100 deaths per year. Yet, we as a soceity has decided that certain risks are worth taking compared to the benefit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Fi8I-qOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Fi8I-qOk
- delusional 2y ago
  I recognize that you didn't claim a connection, but the proximity of the arguments could lead a casual reader to conclude that one exists. I very strongly want to distance myself and my argument from the ones put forward in the video. Furthermore, I also strongly shun the rhetoric in that video that mostly reminds me of a Ben Shapiro "owns" video. I do not find that kind wall building useful or good.
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    > It all comes down to the consequences of failure. If failure means homelessness, avoid failure. I was specifically countering this assumption. Our human mind doesn't have absolute hierarchy of preferences, they might even be circular (A is preferred to B, B is preferred to C and C is preferred to A). If I asked the mountaineer, would he like to be homeless. He would say no. But his context specific wish is to die on a mountain trying to summit which contradicts his desire to not be homeless.