5 ms·

If it was this simple than Facebook would never have caught on in the first place. The answer isn't "rollback" because clearly there is some value here. The ans

If it was this simple than Facebook would never have caught on in the first place. The answer isn't "rollback" because clearly there is some value here. The answer is finding out how to maximize that value to our lives, not maximize the payout for investors.

malandrew 14y ago
The main thing Facebook provides that isn't addressable with the systems we'd be left with in a "rollback" is a universal way to stay linked to other people that provides both people with control over whether that link exists or not. Everything else is just features glommed on top of that basic feature. AFAICT there are only two ways to provide that basic feature: (!) A centralized service like Facebook that manages the identity network. Any centralized organization is most likely ultimately going to exploit the fact that they own the network for their own gain, financial or otherwise. or (2) A decentralized service based on the similar cryptographic math as bitcoin, where every user gets one token representing their identity, and some sort of way to propagate changes to their identity signed by that token to everyone they are connected to and this needs to be accomplished in such a way that you can always re-establish the links to your friends in the network to be able to sync data. I can't even begin to imagine how you'd develop the latter into a form that would be usable and therefore adoptable by the average person.
- wodemaye__ 14y ago
  Hi, I'm actually in the process of designing such a system, with the goal of maximizing privacy, sovereignty, decentralization, and overall empowerment (not to mention destroying the facebook spying machine). If you'd like to help out with ideas and brainstorming, please do email me at bash.vcs [squigllydoo [SHIFT+TWO]] <google's mail service> . com. I already have some ideas for unique features that will set this apart from other similarly oriented efforts in a significant way. I'm getting close to starting up a mailing list and code repository, so please be in touch if you're at all interested. I'll keep you filled in. But yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head. Obviously, my will fall into your (2) category, so we've got some major usability and cryptographic hurdles to tackle. But please rest assured that the solutions exist and that I've got most of them hammered out in my mind - the rest just require a little brainstorming and puzzle solving. PS it will be completely F/OSS, most likely GPL depending on contributor consensus.
  - Ralith 14y ago
    Why will you succeed where so many others have failed?
    - wodemaye__ 14y ago
      I have unique ideas for solutions to unsolved problems. I plan to use a painless and ubiquitous deployment platform, as well as an unparalleled level of decentralization (not federation where you're still a slave to the pod operator who can still sell you out) and sovereignty. I plan on publishing essays of my ideas as proposals on a site in the near future when I get around to doing so. I can keep you filled in if you're interested in contributing. (it'll all likely be GPLd.)
- mongol 14y ago
  Number 2 is very interesting. I don't know either how it would work, but Bitcoin proves that intelligent stuff in this direction can be done and have some success
- toemetoch 14y ago
  I guess the FB cookies in your browser is a simplified version of the token. It's used to identify you not only on FB but also on other sites that load their javascript for comments & likes. There was some anger a while back about how fb could track you with cookies even if you're logged out - due to the ubiquity of their js on the web.
- Silhouette 14y ago
  I am still trying to work out why something approximating (2) can't be done through a simple combination of: - tried-and-tested public key cryptography techniques - using e-mail as a buffered delivery mechanism (everyone has an e-mail account that can store plenty of messages until they're next on-line) - borrowing the typical DVCS copy-the-whole-repo approach so you've got distributed back-ups - writing a native client for whichever platforms you wanted to support. If someone wants to make money off it, come up with a neat physical way to connect something personal but memorable to keys of sufficient complexity to encrypt everything robustly: mobile app, USB device, whatever. The only obvious limitation is physical bandwidth and storage capacity, which would make copy-the-whole-repo unsustainable if people kept sharing lots of photos/multimedia content but their friends don't want to "download" all of it. How much this will matter as data storage and communication network capacity increases is anyone's guess. In the meantime, if you were willing to accept a delay you could have a request/reply system to fetch larger items, or someone could charge a modest sum of real money to people who want to use an actual centralised escrow-like system that is always available to their friends even when they're not on-line. The system doesn't need to be able to see into any content, just to act as a more real-time substitute for the default buffered transmission via e-mail.
  - wodemaye__ 14y ago
    Hi, I'm actually in the process of designing such a system, with the goal of maximizing privacy, sovereignty, decentralization, and overall empowerment (not to mention destroying the facebook spying machine). If you'd like to help out with ideas and brainstorming, please do email me at bash.vcs [squigllydoo [SHIFT+TWO]] <google's mail service> . com. I already have some ideas for unique features that will set this apart from other similarly oriented efforts in a significant way. I'm getting close to starting up a mailing list and code repository, so please be in touch if you're at all interested. I'll keep you filled in. PS it will be completely F/OSS, most likely GPL depending on contributor consensus.
- malandrew 14y ago
  I forgot one detail. They don't just provide the links, but a way of discovering the link via other unique identifiers, some of which are confirmed. e.g. email addresses and phone numbers. With #2 you'd still need trusted sources that can verify that a person i found via johndoe@acme.com or +1 (914) 555-1212 is in fact the owner of that email or phone number.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- mark_integerdsv 14y ago
  You are describing (1) a cellphone network and (2) a cellphone number. The rest is overthink.

malandrew 14y ago

The main thing Facebook provides that isn't addressable with the systems we'd be left with in a "rollback" is a universal way to stay linked to other people that provides both people with control over whether that link exists or not. Everything else is just features glommed on top of that basic feature. AFAICT there are only two ways to provide that basic feature: (!) A centralized service like Facebook that manages the identity network. Any centralized organization is most likely ultimately going to exploit the fact that they own the network for their own gain, financial or otherwise. or (2) A decentralized service based on the similar cryptographic math as bitcoin, where every user gets one token representing their identity, and some sort of way to propagate changes to their identity signed by that token to everyone they are connected to and this needs to be accomplished in such a way that you can always re-establish the links to your friends in the network to be able to sync data. I can't even begin to imagine how you'd develop the latter into a form that would be usable and therefore adoptable by the average person.

wodemaye__ 14y ago
Hi, I'm actually in the process of designing such a system, with the goal of maximizing privacy, sovereignty, decentralization, and overall empowerment (not to mention destroying the facebook spying machine). If you'd like to help out with ideas and brainstorming, please do email me at bash.vcs [squigllydoo [SHIFT+TWO]] <google's mail service> . com. I already have some ideas for unique features that will set this apart from other similarly oriented efforts in a significant way. I'm getting close to starting up a mailing list and code repository, so please be in touch if you're at all interested. I'll keep you filled in. But yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head. Obviously, my will fall into your (2) category, so we've got some major usability and cryptographic hurdles to tackle. But please rest assured that the solutions exist and that I've got most of them hammered out in my mind - the rest just require a little brainstorming and puzzle solving. PS it will be completely F/OSS, most likely GPL depending on contributor consensus.
- Ralith 14y ago
  Why will you succeed where so many others have failed?
  - wodemaye__ 14y ago
    I have unique ideas for solutions to unsolved problems. I plan to use a painless and ubiquitous deployment platform, as well as an unparalleled level of decentralization (not federation where you're still a slave to the pod operator who can still sell you out) and sovereignty. I plan on publishing essays of my ideas as proposals on a site in the near future when I get around to doing so. I can keep you filled in if you're interested in contributing. (it'll all likely be GPLd.)
mongol 14y ago
Number 2 is very interesting. I don't know either how it would work, but Bitcoin proves that intelligent stuff in this direction can be done and have some success
toemetoch 14y ago
I guess the FB cookies in your browser is a simplified version of the token. It's used to identify you not only on FB but also on other sites that load their javascript for comments & likes. There was some anger a while back about how fb could track you with cookies even if you're logged out - due to the ubiquity of their js on the web.
Silhouette 14y ago
I am still trying to work out why something approximating (2) can't be done through a simple combination of: - tried-and-tested public key cryptography techniques - using e-mail as a buffered delivery mechanism (everyone has an e-mail account that can store plenty of messages until they're next on-line) - borrowing the typical DVCS copy-the-whole-repo approach so you've got distributed back-ups - writing a native client for whichever platforms you wanted to support. If someone wants to make money off it, come up with a neat physical way to connect something personal but memorable to keys of sufficient complexity to encrypt everything robustly: mobile app, USB device, whatever. The only obvious limitation is physical bandwidth and storage capacity, which would make copy-the-whole-repo unsustainable if people kept sharing lots of photos/multimedia content but their friends don't want to "download" all of it. How much this will matter as data storage and communication network capacity increases is anyone's guess. In the meantime, if you were willing to accept a delay you could have a request/reply system to fetch larger items, or someone could charge a modest sum of real money to people who want to use an actual centralised escrow-like system that is always available to their friends even when they're not on-line. The system doesn't need to be able to see into any content, just to act as a more real-time substitute for the default buffered transmission via e-mail.
- wodemaye__ 14y ago
  Hi, I'm actually in the process of designing such a system, with the goal of maximizing privacy, sovereignty, decentralization, and overall empowerment (not to mention destroying the facebook spying machine). If you'd like to help out with ideas and brainstorming, please do email me at bash.vcs [squigllydoo [SHIFT+TWO]] <google's mail service> . com. I already have some ideas for unique features that will set this apart from other similarly oriented efforts in a significant way. I'm getting close to starting up a mailing list and code repository, so please be in touch if you're at all interested. I'll keep you filled in. PS it will be completely F/OSS, most likely GPL depending on contributor consensus.
malandrew 14y ago
I forgot one detail. They don't just provide the links, but a way of discovering the link via other unique identifiers, some of which are confirmed. e.g. email addresses and phone numbers. With #2 you'd still need trusted sources that can verify that a person i found via johndoe@acme.com or +1 (914) 555-1212 is in fact the owner of that email or phone number.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mark_integerdsv 14y ago
You are describing (1) a cellphone network and (2) a cellphone number. The rest is overthink.