4 ms·

I think the "step towards being an inter planetary species" as a result of catching a re-usable rocket might have merit in that it makes construction of things

by dools 2y ago

I think the "step towards being an inter planetary species" as a result of catching a re-usable rocket might have merit in that it makes construction of things in outer space easier (although that's probably a charitable interpretation of the statement). My take on the Spacex is Mars habitation project is that Musk will put a bunch of edgelords on Mars, and then not really be able to follow up with adequate supply lines and the operation will be offline for a hundred years or so while the climate settles down. The people who live on Mars will then have been there alone for a century and in the 2100s we will send a follow up mission with hilarious consequences.

peepeepoopoo87 2y ago
Thunderf00t, is that you?
- dools 2y ago
  Haha I had never heard of that dude, but I like the look of his content thanks! BTW you can tell I'm not Thunderf00t because he says that "the taxpayer" paid $3 billion. I would never use "taxpayer funding" language, I would only ever call it public money (because Treasury creates money when it spends).
  - exe34 2y ago
    by that logic tax should be zero?
    - dools 2y ago
      Not really, if there was no tax there would be no money. The most succinct way that I have found to express the relationship between taxation and spending is that spending at the federal level is constrained by aggregate spending this year, not tax receipts last year.
      - exe34 2y ago
        spending is constrained by whatever Congress says it is. the difference is borrowed.
        dools 2y ago
        It's logically impossible for a government to borrow the currency it issues. What we refer to as borrowing is just swapping one government liability (reserve balances) for another (treasury bonds).
        exe34 2y ago
        you don't borrow from the present, you borrow from the future and hope to pay it back with growth
    - baq 2y ago
      taxes are how you don't have inflation. the government can also destroy money about as easily as it creates it, too. it isn't a politically (and usually economically) desirable thing to do. when it's done, it's usually via replacing the whole currency wholesale (e.g. brazilian real).
      - exe34 2y ago
        > taxes are how you don't have inflation. or you know, don't print trillions to bail out failed banks.
- poulpy123 2y ago
  You don't need to be thunderfoot to understand that pretending you will start to colonize mars in the next years lies somewhere between daydreaming and scamming. Although I like when thunderfoot compare the archives of what musk said with what actually happened
  - peepeepoopoo87 2y ago
    The punchline is that everyone here thought being called "thunderf00t" was a compliment, even though I meant it as an example of someone who is consistently proven wrong at every turn for casting shade on Musk's tech ambitions. It seems HN's original techno-optimist hacker ethos is dead in the grave.
    - dools 2y ago
      Or is the REAL punchline the fact that Musk has optimised his entire empire to tap into the hacker ethos/ideals as the world's biggest pump n dump scheme? He seems to just do things that have the biggest wow factor because growth stocks need to keep growing otherwise there is no point in owning them.
latexr 2y ago
He won’t put anyone living on Mars. And even if he did, they wouldn’t last that long. https://defector.com/neither-elon-musk-nor-anybody-else-will-ever-colonize-mars https://defector.com/neither-elon-musk-nor-anybody-else-will... https://www.acityonmars.com/ https://www.acityonmars.com/
- EnigmaFlare 2y ago
  That first article is just nonsense. The south pole can't support life? It's been supporting humans for half a century. Can't protect against radiation? Live underground like Hamas did. Have to wait 9 months for food? We do that on Earth too - if you're hungry, call a farmer and ask him to plant some food then come back in a year or two when it's harvested. We solve that problem by pipelining it, just as you would on Mars.
  - latexr 2y ago
    The South Pole hasn’t been “supporting humans”, we forced ourselves in there and survive despite the conditions in an environment that is harsh but even so considerably more hospitable than Mars. All your other solutions are hand-wavey. Sure, let’s “just live underground” as if that’s just as easy as pitching a tent. And who on Earth is surviving nine months without any food? You’re talking as if Mars is just turning right on Albuquerque.
photochemsyn 2y ago
Musk hasn't to my knowledge financed any architectural design projects for a long-term livable Mars habitat that can sustain itself without constant inputs from Earth. I suspect this is because the most casual analysis reveals incredible difficulties - the structures would have to be buried under a few meters of regolith to avoid constant radiation burn, and the ration of human living space to plant growing space (for food) would have to be about 1:6 I'd guess. The amount of material required to build such a structure for 100 humans? Let alone maintenance, etc. If realistic plans were actually presented no doubt everyone would start laughing, which is why we haven't seen any mock-ups, VR models, etc.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  They're working on getting the issue of transport sorted out first because the entire architecture is shaped by the constraints and requirements of your transport system. The amount of mass you can land, the energy needed for ISRU and so on. HN just has forgotten its hacker roots and instead gets off to unconstructively sitting back and criticizing with shallow gotchas.

by dools 2y ago

peepeepoopoo87 2y ago

Thunderf00t, is that you?

dools 2y ago
Haha I had never heard of that dude, but I like the look of his content thanks! BTW you can tell I'm not Thunderf00t because he says that "the taxpayer" paid $3 billion. I would never use "taxpayer funding" language, I would only ever call it public money (because Treasury creates money when it spends).
- exe34 2y ago
  by that logic tax should be zero?
  - dools 2y ago
    Not really, if there was no tax there would be no money. The most succinct way that I have found to express the relationship between taxation and spending is that spending at the federal level is constrained by aggregate spending this year, not tax receipts last year.
    - exe34 2y ago
      spending is constrained by whatever Congress says it is. the difference is borrowed.
      - dools 2y ago
        It's logically impossible for a government to borrow the currency it issues. What we refer to as borrowing is just swapping one government liability (reserve balances) for another (treasury bonds).
        exe34 2y ago
        you don't borrow from the present, you borrow from the future and hope to pay it back with growth
  - baq 2y ago
    taxes are how you don't have inflation. the government can also destroy money about as easily as it creates it, too. it isn't a politically (and usually economically) desirable thing to do. when it's done, it's usually via replacing the whole currency wholesale (e.g. brazilian real).
    - exe34 2y ago
      > taxes are how you don't have inflation. or you know, don't print trillions to bail out failed banks.
poulpy123 2y ago
You don't need to be thunderfoot to understand that pretending you will start to colonize mars in the next years lies somewhere between daydreaming and scamming. Although I like when thunderfoot compare the archives of what musk said with what actually happened
- peepeepoopoo87 2y ago
  The punchline is that everyone here thought being called "thunderf00t" was a compliment, even though I meant it as an example of someone who is consistently proven wrong at every turn for casting shade on Musk's tech ambitions. It seems HN's original techno-optimist hacker ethos is dead in the grave.
  - dools 2y ago
    Or is the REAL punchline the fact that Musk has optimised his entire empire to tap into the hacker ethos/ideals as the world's biggest pump n dump scheme? He seems to just do things that have the biggest wow factor because growth stocks need to keep growing otherwise there is no point in owning them.

latexr 2y ago

He won’t put anyone living on Mars. And even if he did, they wouldn’t last that long. https://defector.com/neither-elon-musk-nor-anybody-else-will-ever-colonize-mars https://defector.com/neither-elon-musk-nor-anybody-else-will... https://www.acityonmars.com/ https://www.acityonmars.com/

EnigmaFlare 2y ago
That first article is just nonsense. The south pole can't support life? It's been supporting humans for half a century. Can't protect against radiation? Live underground like Hamas did. Have to wait 9 months for food? We do that on Earth too - if you're hungry, call a farmer and ask him to plant some food then come back in a year or two when it's harvested. We solve that problem by pipelining it, just as you would on Mars.
- latexr 2y ago
  The South Pole hasn’t been “supporting humans”, we forced ourselves in there and survive despite the conditions in an environment that is harsh but even so considerably more hospitable than Mars. All your other solutions are hand-wavey. Sure, let’s “just live underground” as if that’s just as easy as pitching a tent. And who on Earth is surviving nine months without any food? You’re talking as if Mars is just turning right on Albuquerque.

photochemsyn 2y ago

Musk hasn't to my knowledge financed any architectural design projects for a long-term livable Mars habitat that can sustain itself without constant inputs from Earth. I suspect this is because the most casual analysis reveals incredible difficulties - the structures would have to be buried under a few meters of regolith to avoid constant radiation burn, and the ration of human living space to plant growing space (for food) would have to be about 1:6 I'd guess. The amount of material required to build such a structure for 100 humans? Let alone maintenance, etc. If realistic plans were actually presented no doubt everyone would start laughing, which is why we haven't seen any mock-ups, VR models, etc.

dotnet00 2y ago
They're working on getting the issue of transport sorted out first because the entire architecture is shaped by the constraints and requirements of your transport system. The amount of mass you can land, the energy needed for ISRU and so on. HN just has forgotten its hacker roots and instead gets off to unconstructively sitting back and criticizing with shallow gotchas.