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We agree in that if my client distributes illegal content, I am responsible, at least in part. On the other hand I also believe that a tracker that hosts hashe

We agree in that if my client distributes illegal content, I am responsible, at least in part. On the other hand I also believe that a tracker that hosts hashes of illegal content, provides search facilities for and facilitates their download, is responsible, in a big way. That's my personal opinion and I think it's backed in cases like the pirate bay and sci hub. That 0 knowledge tracker is interesting, my first reaction is that it's going to end up in very nasty places like Tor, onion, etc..

defrost 2y ago
> That 0 knowledge tracker is interesting, Most actual trackers are zero knowledge. A tracker (bit of central software that handles 100+ thousand connections/second) is not a "torrent site" such as TPB, EZTV, etc. A tracker handshakes torrent clients and introduces peers to each other, it has no idea nor needs an idea that "SomeName 1080p DSPN" maps to D23F5C5AAE3D5C361476108C97557F200327718A All it needs is to store IP addresses that are interested in that hash and to pass handfuls of interested IP addresses to other interested parties (and some other bookkeeping). From an actual tracker PoV the content is irrelevant and there's no means of telling one thing from another other than size - it's how trackers have operated for 20+ years now. Here are some actual tracker addresses and ports udp://tracker.opentrackr.org:1337/announce udp://p4p.arenabg.com:1337/announce udp://tracker.torrent.eu.org:451/announce udp://tracker.dler.org:6969/announce udp://open.stealth.si:80/announce udp://ipv4.tracker.harry.lu:80/announce https://opentracker.i2p.rocks:443/announce Here's the bittorrent protocol: http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0052.html http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0052.html Trackers can hand out .torrent files if asked (bencoded dictionaries that describe filenames, sizes, checksums, directory structures of a torrents contents) but they don't have to; mostly they hand out peer lists of other clients .. peers can also answer requests for .torrent files. A .torrent file isn't enough to determine illegal content. Pornography can be contained in files labelled "BeautifulSunset.mkv" and Rick Astley parody videos can frequently be found in files labelled "DirtyFilthyRepubicanFootTappingNudeAfrica.avi" Given that it's not clear how trackers could effectively filter by content that never actually traverses their servers.
- TZubiri 2y ago
  Oh ok, it seems to be a misconception of mine then. Mathematically a tracker would offer a function that given a hash, it returns you a list of peers with that file. While a "torrent site" like TPB or SH, would offer a search mechanism, whereby they would host an index, content hashes and english descriptors, along with a search engine. A user would then need to first use the "torrent site" to enter their search terms, and find the hash, then they would need to give the hash to a tracker, which would return the list of peers? Is that right? In any case, each party in the transaction shares liability. If we were analyzing a drug case or a people trafficking case, each distributor, wholesaler or retailer would bear liability and face criminal charges. A legal defense of the type "I just connected buyers with sellers I never exchanged the drug" would not have much chance of succeding, although it is a common method to obstruct justice by complicating evidence gathering. (One member collects the money, the other gives the drugs.)
  - defrost 2y ago
    > A user would then need to first use the "torrent site" to enter their search terms, and find the hash, then they would need to give the hash to a tracker, which would return the list of peers? > Is that right? More or less. > In any case, each party in the transaction shares liability. That's exactly right Bob. Just as a telephone exchange shares liability for connecting drug sellers to drug buyers when given a phone number. Clearly the telephone exchange should know by the number that the parties intend to discuss sharing child pornography rather than public access to free to air documentaries. How do you propose that a telephone exchange vet phone numbers to ensure drugs are not discussed? Bear in mind that in the case of a tracker the 'call' is NOT routed through the exchange. With a proper telephone exchange the call data (voices) pass through the exchange equipment, with a tracker no actual file content passes through the trackers hardware. The tracker, given a number, tells interested parties about each other .. they then talk directly to each other; be it about The Sky at Night -s2024e07- 2024-10-07 Question Time or about Debbie Does Donkeys. Also keep in mind that trackers juggle a vast volume of connections of which a very small amount would be (say) child abuse related.
    - 2y ago

defrost 2y ago

> That 0 knowledge tracker is interesting, Most actual trackers are zero knowledge. A tracker (bit of central software that handles 100+ thousand connections/second) is not a "torrent site" such as TPB, EZTV, etc. A tracker handshakes torrent clients and introduces peers to each other, it has no idea nor needs an idea that "SomeName 1080p DSPN" maps to D23F5C5AAE3D5C361476108C97557F200327718A All it needs is to store IP addresses that are interested in that hash and to pass handfuls of interested IP addresses to other interested parties (and some other bookkeeping). From an actual tracker PoV the content is irrelevant and there's no means of telling one thing from another other than size - it's how trackers have operated for 20+ years now. Here are some actual tracker addresses and ports udp://tracker.opentrackr.org:1337/announce udp://p4p.arenabg.com:1337/announce udp://tracker.torrent.eu.org:451/announce udp://tracker.dler.org:6969/announce udp://open.stealth.si:80/announce udp://ipv4.tracker.harry.lu:80/announce https://opentracker.i2p.rocks:443/announce Here's the bittorrent protocol: http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0052.html http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0052.html Trackers can hand out .torrent files if asked (bencoded dictionaries that describe filenames, sizes, checksums, directory structures of a torrents contents) but they don't have to; mostly they hand out peer lists of other clients .. peers can also answer requests for .torrent files. A .torrent file isn't enough to determine illegal content. Pornography can be contained in files labelled "BeautifulSunset.mkv" and Rick Astley parody videos can frequently be found in files labelled "DirtyFilthyRepubicanFootTappingNudeAfrica.avi" Given that it's not clear how trackers could effectively filter by content that never actually traverses their servers.

TZubiri 2y ago
Oh ok, it seems to be a misconception of mine then. Mathematically a tracker would offer a function that given a hash, it returns you a list of peers with that file. While a "torrent site" like TPB or SH, would offer a search mechanism, whereby they would host an index, content hashes and english descriptors, along with a search engine. A user would then need to first use the "torrent site" to enter their search terms, and find the hash, then they would need to give the hash to a tracker, which would return the list of peers? Is that right? In any case, each party in the transaction shares liability. If we were analyzing a drug case or a people trafficking case, each distributor, wholesaler or retailer would bear liability and face criminal charges. A legal defense of the type "I just connected buyers with sellers I never exchanged the drug" would not have much chance of succeding, although it is a common method to obstruct justice by complicating evidence gathering. (One member collects the money, the other gives the drugs.)
- defrost 2y ago
  > A user would then need to first use the "torrent site" to enter their search terms, and find the hash, then they would need to give the hash to a tracker, which would return the list of peers? > Is that right? More or less. > In any case, each party in the transaction shares liability. That's exactly right Bob. Just as a telephone exchange shares liability for connecting drug sellers to drug buyers when given a phone number. Clearly the telephone exchange should know by the number that the parties intend to discuss sharing child pornography rather than public access to free to air documentaries. How do you propose that a telephone exchange vet phone numbers to ensure drugs are not discussed? Bear in mind that in the case of a tracker the 'call' is NOT routed through the exchange. With a proper telephone exchange the call data (voices) pass through the exchange equipment, with a tracker no actual file content passes through the trackers hardware. The tracker, given a number, tells interested parties about each other .. they then talk directly to each other; be it about The Sky at Night -s2024e07- 2024-10-07 Question Time or about Debbie Does Donkeys. Also keep in mind that trackers juggle a vast volume of connections of which a very small amount would be (say) child abuse related.
  - 2y ago