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I don't understand this "in spite of" and "vs." narrative. As far as I know my history the goals were aligned, not least because government was some of the same

I don't understand this "in spite of" and "vs." narrative. As far as I know my history the goals were aligned, not least because government was some of the same people, or connected people, and the goals were aligned. The functions were different. Where does this either-or (private/government) come from? I look at Gregor Mendel as an example for how many different parties worked as one. (Biology) professor Eric Lander of MIT mentioned in one biology/genetics intro course lecture video (on edX) that Mendel was not some lone figure, but that he got the task to do his research from his boss, who as representative of the church was in turn part of a local group consisting of important figures from local business and government. They talked about economics and decided that they needed better sheep - for better wool. Back then clothing was the big important business, the technical revolution and also new science was very important for it. So I don't think there was a situation as described in that quote. I think they all worked along and with one another in those days. The entire expansion of empires and colonies was not driven by some government officials who were bored, commerce, industry and politics were aligned.

KineticLensman 2y ago
> "in spite of" and "vs." narrative The point was that Verne's fictitious heroes were acting independently of government, real or fictional. For example using fictitious, privately funded super-technology (rockets, aircraft, submarines, etc), or emerging from their exclusive gentlemen's clubs to which they returned when the adventure was over.
- nosianu 2y ago
  And I responded to the clear statement you quoted from the submission: > His heroes were compelled by a quest to resist politics and oppose it... > ...They ventured afar in spite of government, not because of it. :) Granted, reading the full piece shows a more complex picture, but I'm not sure it supports its own assertion that there is meant to be this "vs" towards nations and governments. The text later contradicts itself too: > In part, this betrayed how much Verne and his readers took a world of empire for granted: after all, circumnavigation with the ease described in Around the World in Eighty Days was only possible because of empire. Verne depicted a journey that simultaneously relied on a velocity and connectivity only possible because of globe-spanning imperial transport and communication networks, and a journey where – in stark contrast with most actual circumnavigatory voyages – the travellers return home alive and well. So the text admits the entire private enterprise is only made possible by the global reach and security provided by empire in the first place. That clearly contradicts the earlier statement of "They ventured afar in spite of government, not because of it." The world the stories play in are based no the existence of that political structure and require it.

KineticLensman 2y ago

> "in spite of" and "vs." narrative The point was that Verne's fictitious heroes were acting independently of government, real or fictional. For example using fictitious, privately funded super-technology (rockets, aircraft, submarines, etc), or emerging from their exclusive gentlemen's clubs to which they returned when the adventure was over.

nosianu 2y ago
And I responded to the clear statement you quoted from the submission: > His heroes were compelled by a quest to resist politics and oppose it... > ...They ventured afar in spite of government, not because of it. :) Granted, reading the full piece shows a more complex picture, but I'm not sure it supports its own assertion that there is meant to be this "vs" towards nations and governments. The text later contradicts itself too: > In part, this betrayed how much Verne and his readers took a world of empire for granted: after all, circumnavigation with the ease described in Around the World in Eighty Days was only possible because of empire. Verne depicted a journey that simultaneously relied on a velocity and connectivity only possible because of globe-spanning imperial transport and communication networks, and a journey where – in stark contrast with most actual circumnavigatory voyages – the travellers return home alive and well. So the text admits the entire private enterprise is only made possible by the global reach and security provided by empire in the first place. That clearly contradicts the earlier statement of "They ventured afar in spite of government, not because of it." The world the stories play in are based no the existence of that political structure and require it.