3 ms·

I am guessing that you think sperm and eggs have no consciousness. But, humans do. When do you imagine it started? Does your mental model explain this physical

I am guessing that you think sperm and eggs have no consciousness. But, humans do. When do you imagine it started? Does your mental model explain this physically/algorithmically? (Honest question, I consider this often and really have no clue)

n4r9 2y ago
Asking if a single-celled organism is conscious kind of feels like asking whether quantum theory is statically typed. Like applying a descriptor from one category to objects in another.
- HeuristicsCG 2y ago
  it's commonplace to hold the opinion that an individual particle is slightly conscious
  - ronjobber 2y ago
    This is a thing... but it is certainly not commonplace.
    - HeuristicsCG 2y ago
      In philosophy of mind it's not something that would raise an eyebrow
  - n4r9 2y ago
    Are you referring to pansychism? I don't get the impression that it's very popular these days. > There are few explicit defenders of panpsychism at the present time. The most prominent are David Griffin, Gregg Rosenberg, David Skrbina and Timothy Sprigge. https://plato.stanford.edu/ARCHIVES/WIN2009/entries/panpsychism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/ARCHIVES/WIN2009/entries/panpsych...
- CalRobert 2y ago
  But that’s my point! When was it conscious? A million cells? A billion?
  - n4r9 2y ago
    My hunch is that consciousness will come to be described in terms of information processing systems, rather than the biological substrate on which they run. Systems with certain properties - possibly including a sufficiently complex model of the environment, model of the self, and a continuously updating internal narrative - may be said to possess a level of consciousness. I'm not a biologist and I appreciate that the above is somewhat vague, but I wouldn't say that sperm or egg cells have the above.
    - Teever 2y ago
      It's the problem of heaps[0] and I think you'll find Michael Levin's fascinating perspective[1] on this topic to be very interesting [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox [1] https://youtu.be/e5GDnD_WA2Q?si=QQfWr3HsHQarhk-H https://youtu.be/e5GDnD_WA2Q?si=QQfWr3HsHQarhk-H

n4r9 2y ago

Asking if a single-celled organism is conscious kind of feels like asking whether quantum theory is statically typed. Like applying a descriptor from one category to objects in another.

HeuristicsCG 2y ago
it's commonplace to hold the opinion that an individual particle is slightly conscious
- ronjobber 2y ago
  This is a thing... but it is certainly not commonplace.
  - HeuristicsCG 2y ago
    In philosophy of mind it's not something that would raise an eyebrow
- n4r9 2y ago
  Are you referring to pansychism? I don't get the impression that it's very popular these days. > There are few explicit defenders of panpsychism at the present time. The most prominent are David Griffin, Gregg Rosenberg, David Skrbina and Timothy Sprigge. https://plato.stanford.edu/ARCHIVES/WIN2009/entries/panpsychism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/ARCHIVES/WIN2009/entries/panpsych...
CalRobert 2y ago
But that’s my point! When was it conscious? A million cells? A billion?
- n4r9 2y ago
  My hunch is that consciousness will come to be described in terms of information processing systems, rather than the biological substrate on which they run. Systems with certain properties - possibly including a sufficiently complex model of the environment, model of the self, and a continuously updating internal narrative - may be said to possess a level of consciousness. I'm not a biologist and I appreciate that the above is somewhat vague, but I wouldn't say that sperm or egg cells have the above.
  - Teever 2y ago
    It's the problem of heaps[0] and I think you'll find Michael Levin's fascinating perspective[1] on this topic to be very interesting [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox [1] https://youtu.be/e5GDnD_WA2Q?si=QQfWr3HsHQarhk-H https://youtu.be/e5GDnD_WA2Q?si=QQfWr3HsHQarhk-H