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Good you're not a manager then. When I switched from C to Java, I experienced a considerable bump in development speed. Just the collections framework was a g

by pka 14y ago

Good you're not a manager then. When I switched from C to Java, I experienced a considerable bump in development speed. Just the collections framework was a godsend, not to mention things like GC etc. Quite literally I would write things in days instead of weeks. Same thing goes for Java -> Clojure. And just to be clear, it is not my favorite language.

dsrguru 14y ago
neutronicus should read the Blug Paradox in pg's Beating the Averages (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html).
dr42 14y ago
I'd hazard a guess that this had less to do with java and more to do with your lack of c experience. collections in c is a solved problem, there are numerous libraries (glib, for example) out there that are all similar to Java's collections. C++ has stl with many of the same collections, and if you want to use auto_ptr, you don't even need to remember to call delete. I am not saying there are not productivity gains to be had from using java, but as in this case, it typically comes from not having the relevant experience elsewhere.
- pka 14y ago
  Automatic memory management, instantaneous compilation, no portability issues, (easier) polymorphism. Maybe weeks -> days was an overexaggeration when it comes to C -> Java but I definitely experienced a big productivity gain, and it wasn't because of a lack of C experience. From a quick glance at the docs glib looks good but it is still too low-level for normal app development (for example, the size of a hashing table created by hcreate() is fixed; so you have to create & copy & destroy a hash table if you want to add more elements than it can hold at a time) and it should be, that's the whole point. C++ is a whole other story, sure.
Ygg2 14y ago
Funny story. I programmed briefly in C and went to Java. I had almost five years of experience there. Due to circumstances, my sister now needs some help coding some stuff in C (note these aren't same types of problems I had). And I noticed that I am now so much more productive in C compared to what I was before. Hell I make less mistakes than in Java (granted problems are a bit easier). My point is - are you sure you just aren't better programmer overall and attributing that (somewhat underservedly because GC and a huge choice of collections) to Java/Clojure/<insert language>?
- pka 14y ago
  Partly, sure. If I had to write some C again I would surely try to do it as functionally as possible, and with the added experience I have gained in the last years I would now probably be a better overall C programmer. But had I sticked with C and not moved on to other languages I probably wouldn't be much better now than I was before.

by pka 14y ago

dsrguru 14y ago

neutronicus should read the Blug Paradox in pg's Beating the Averages (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html).

dr42 14y ago

I'd hazard a guess that this had less to do with java and more to do with your lack of c experience. collections in c is a solved problem, there are numerous libraries (glib, for example) out there that are all similar to Java's collections. C++ has stl with many of the same collections, and if you want to use auto_ptr, you don't even need to remember to call delete. I am not saying there are not productivity gains to be had from using java, but as in this case, it typically comes from not having the relevant experience elsewhere.

pka 14y ago
Automatic memory management, instantaneous compilation, no portability issues, (easier) polymorphism. Maybe weeks -> days was an overexaggeration when it comes to C -> Java but I definitely experienced a big productivity gain, and it wasn't because of a lack of C experience. From a quick glance at the docs glib looks good but it is still too low-level for normal app development (for example, the size of a hashing table created by hcreate() is fixed; so you have to create & copy & destroy a hash table if you want to add more elements than it can hold at a time) and it should be, that's the whole point. C++ is a whole other story, sure.

Ygg2 14y ago

Funny story. I programmed briefly in C and went to Java. I had almost five years of experience there. Due to circumstances, my sister now needs some help coding some stuff in C (note these aren't same types of problems I had). And I noticed that I am now so much more productive in C compared to what I was before. Hell I make less mistakes than in Java (granted problems are a bit easier). My point is - are you sure you just aren't better programmer overall and attributing that (somewhat underservedly because GC and a huge choice of collections) to Java/Clojure/<insert language>?

pka 14y ago
Partly, sure. If I had to write some C again I would surely try to do it as functionally as possible, and with the added experience I have gained in the last years I would now probably be a better overall C programmer. But had I sticked with C and not moved on to other languages I probably wouldn't be much better now than I was before.