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I just gave it another try after my last failed attempt. (https://tomverbeure.github.io/2024/05/20/Tesla-FSD-First-and-Last-Impressions.html https://tomverbeure

I just gave it another try after my last failed attempt. (https://tomverbeure.github.io/2024/05/20/Tesla-FSD-First-and-Last-Impressions.html https://tomverbeure.github.io/2024/05/20/Tesla-FSD-First-and...) I still find it shockingly bad, especially in the way it reacts, or doesn’t, to the way things change around the car (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) or the way it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in the middle of that maneuver. Those don’t count as disengagements, but they’re jarring and drivers around you will rightfully question your behavior. And that’s all over just a few miles of driving in an easy environment if interstate or highway. I totally agree that it’s an impressive party trick, but it has no business being on the road. My experience with Waymo in SF couldn’t have been more different.

sokoloff 2y ago
> (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. What does the Tesla do (or not do) in this case that's bad?
- cma 2y ago
  Defensive driving is to assume they might not check their blindspot, etc. And just generally ease off in this situation if they would merge in tight if they began merging now.
  - tverbeure 2y ago
    That’s the issue: I would immediately slow a little bit to let the other one merge. FSD seems to be noticing something, and eventually slow down, but the action is too subtle (if at all) to signal the other guy that you’re letting them merge.
- hotspot_one 2y ago
  > That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. Only under the assumption that the driver was trained in the US, to follow US traffic law, and is following that training. For example, in the EU, you switch on the indicators when you start the merge; the indicator shows that you ARE moving.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    That seems odd to the point of uselessness, and does not match the required training I received in Germany from my work colleagues at Daimler prior to being able to sign out company cars. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__9.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__9.html seems to be the relevant law in Germany, which Google translates to "(1) Anyone wishing to turn must announce this clearly and in good time; direction indicators must be used."
    - nielsole 2y ago
      Merging into the lane is probably better addressed by §7, with the same content: https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/7.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/7.html
    - throw4950sh06 2y ago
      Maybe the guy was talking about the reality, not the theory. From my autobahn travels it seems like the Germans don't know how to turn on the blinkers.
      - xattt 2y ago
        > … the Germans don’t know how turn on the blinkers. [Insert nationality/regional area here] don’t know how to turn on the blinkers.
        throw4950sh06 2y ago
        I wouldn't say so. It's a very marked difference with a sharp change the moment I drive through the border.
- tverbeure 2y ago
  What I expect it to do is to be a courteous driver, and back off a little bit to signal to the car in front that I got the message and that it's safe to merge. FSD is already defensive to a fault, with frequent stop-and-go indecisions of when to merge onto a highway, but that's a whole other story. A major part of safe driving is about being predictable. You either commit and claim your right of way, or you don't. In this situation, both can be signaled easily to the other party by being a bit of a jerk (e.g. accelerating to close the gap and prevent somebody else from merging) or the opposite. Both are better than not doing anything at all and keeping the other dangling in a state of uncertainty. FSD is in an almost permanent state of being indecisive and unpredictable. It behaves like a scared teenager with a learner's permit. Again, totally different than my experience in Waymo in the urban jungle of San Francisco, who's a defensive but confident driver.
y-c-o-m-b 2y ago
> it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in the middle of that maneuver. This happened to me during my first month of trialing FSD last year and was a big contributing factor for me not subscribing. I did NOT appreciate the mess the vehicle made in this type of situation. If I saw another driver doing the same, I'd seriously question if they were intoxicated.
avar 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vkou 2y ago
  There's degrees to being a shitty human being. Using your platform and millions of followers to publicly shit some random person who pissed you off is a degree of it. Being a colossal hypocrite with your 'free speech' platform, or lying to your customers is something else. Full mask-off throwing millions of dollars towards electing a convicted conman who is unabashedly corrupt, vindictive, nepotistic, already has a failed coup under his belt, and is running on a platform of punishing anyone who isn't a sycophant is... Also something else.
  - whoitwas 2y ago
    I'm a bit more cynical and see his turn as a business move. He has considerate market captured, so he went full wackjob to capture that market. Apparently, this doesn't reflect reality and he actually went crazy because one of his kids is trans. I have no idea because I don't know him.
friendzis 2y ago
> I still find it shockingly bad, especially in the way it reacts, or doesn’t, to the way things change around the car (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) or the way it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in the middle of that maneuver. I have said it before, I will say it again. It seems that this software does not posses permanence, neither object nor decision.

sokoloff 2y ago

> (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. What does the Tesla do (or not do) in this case that's bad?

cma 2y ago
Defensive driving is to assume they might not check their blindspot, etc. And just generally ease off in this situation if they would merge in tight if they began merging now.
- tverbeure 2y ago
  That’s the issue: I would immediately slow a little bit to let the other one merge. FSD seems to be noticing something, and eventually slow down, but the action is too subtle (if at all) to signal the other guy that you’re letting them merge.
hotspot_one 2y ago
> That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. Only under the assumption that the driver was trained in the US, to follow US traffic law, and is following that training. For example, in the EU, you switch on the indicators when you start the merge; the indicator shows that you ARE moving.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  That seems odd to the point of uselessness, and does not match the required training I received in Germany from my work colleagues at Daimler prior to being able to sign out company cars. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__9.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__9.html seems to be the relevant law in Germany, which Google translates to "(1) Anyone wishing to turn must announce this clearly and in good time; direction indicators must be used."
  - nielsole 2y ago
    Merging into the lane is probably better addressed by §7, with the same content: https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/7.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/7.html
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    Maybe the guy was talking about the reality, not the theory. From my autobahn travels it seems like the Germans don't know how to turn on the blinkers.
    - xattt 2y ago
      > … the Germans don’t know how turn on the blinkers. [Insert nationality/regional area here] don’t know how to turn on the blinkers.
      - throw4950sh06 2y ago
        I wouldn't say so. It's a very marked difference with a sharp change the moment I drive through the border.
tverbeure 2y ago
What I expect it to do is to be a courteous driver, and back off a little bit to signal to the car in front that I got the message and that it's safe to merge. FSD is already defensive to a fault, with frequent stop-and-go indecisions of when to merge onto a highway, but that's a whole other story. A major part of safe driving is about being predictable. You either commit and claim your right of way, or you don't. In this situation, both can be signaled easily to the other party by being a bit of a jerk (e.g. accelerating to close the gap and prevent somebody else from merging) or the opposite. Both are better than not doing anything at all and keeping the other dangling in a state of uncertainty. FSD is in an almost permanent state of being indecisive and unpredictable. It behaves like a scared teenager with a learner's permit. Again, totally different than my experience in Waymo in the urban jungle of San Francisco, who's a defensive but confident driver.

y-c-o-m-b 2y ago

> it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in the middle of that maneuver. This happened to me during my first month of trialing FSD last year and was a big contributing factor for me not subscribing. I did NOT appreciate the mess the vehicle made in this type of situation. If I saw another driver doing the same, I'd seriously question if they were intoxicated.

avar 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
vkou 2y ago
There's degrees to being a shitty human being. Using your platform and millions of followers to publicly shit some random person who pissed you off is a degree of it. Being a colossal hypocrite with your 'free speech' platform, or lying to your customers is something else. Full mask-off throwing millions of dollars towards electing a convicted conman who is unabashedly corrupt, vindictive, nepotistic, already has a failed coup under his belt, and is running on a platform of punishing anyone who isn't a sycophant is... Also something else.
- whoitwas 2y ago
  I'm a bit more cynical and see his turn as a business move. He has considerate market captured, so he went full wackjob to capture that market. Apparently, this doesn't reflect reality and he actually went crazy because one of his kids is trans. I have no idea because I don't know him.

friendzis 2y ago

> I still find it shockingly bad, especially in the way it reacts, or doesn’t, to the way things change around the car (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) or the way it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in the middle of that maneuver. I have said it before, I will say it again. It seems that this software does not posses permanence, neither object nor decision.