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The trend of prolonging adolescence bleeds over to employment. It feels like You aren’t a full employee until 28 years old with a graduate degree. And I am ske

The trend of prolonging adolescence bleeds over to employment. It feels like You aren’t a full employee until 28 years old with a graduate degree. And I am skeptical of claims that this is due to increasing specialization and more training. It’s just more hoops to differentiate yourself, and lower hiring risk.

TehCorwiz 2y ago
Another factor is companies trying to use fewer staff which results in employees needing more skills to be effective in that environment. It could be fixed if companies hired with the expectation that they train into the positions, but given the labor market there are still enough job seekers that fit their criteria.
- JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  Employees don't stay at companies long enough to warrant training them Employees don't stay at companies long enough because they virtually always only get market level salary increases by going elsewhere There's basically zero space in two week sprints in many companies to accommodate adequate training regardless.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    > Employees don't stay at companies long enough to warrant training them We're a smaller but growing company, and this is the case for us. If you're planning to move on in 2-3 years it's just not worth it for us to invest in you. When we grown a bit larger we might have some more positions that are compatible with short-term work, but so far we rely on devs to have a lot of independence and domain knowledge.
    - JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
      It's interesting to focus in specifically on that one when "so far we rely on devs to have a lot of independence and domain knowledge" suggests there isn't the capacity to train them anyway? And the plan to move on in 2-3 years is one which has been cultivated by the last few decades of employment norms so it's not fair to pin that one on the current group of juniors either, especially when it's equally likely most of your team will be around in 3 years either. I do get smaller companies not being able to do it, but it seems like we're reaching a point where "smaller but growing" can be stretched to mean a company with a few hundred employees and if they don't have the ability to handle juniors it's hard to know what chance most people have of getting a start.
      - magicalhippo 2y ago
        We have capacity, but not a lot. Hence why we need to ensure it's not wasted. That said, sure, this isn't an issue with the latest crop. However I get the feeling from my more senior colleagues that this wasn't common back a couple of decades ago, at least here in Norway. But yeah, we've been 7 devs for a good while, we've grown to 12 over the last year or so, hence why a single person makes such a difference. Once we reach 20+ I fully expect to have room for more junior devs. If not we're doing it wrong.
atrettel 2y ago
I'm in research and I'd just like to add that in many respects, you are not treated like an adult by some people until you have completed a few postdocs. Multiple graduate degrees are simply not enough for some people.
- tightbookkeeper 2y ago
  Agreed. “If you just keep volunteering for committees and teaching classes maybe we’ll let you in at age 40.” This is such a strange state of affairs where traditionally getting into academia meant delaying your career from age 23 to 27 when you would become an assistant professor.

TehCorwiz 2y ago

Another factor is companies trying to use fewer staff which results in employees needing more skills to be effective in that environment. It could be fixed if companies hired with the expectation that they train into the positions, but given the labor market there are still enough job seekers that fit their criteria.

JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
Employees don't stay at companies long enough to warrant training them Employees don't stay at companies long enough because they virtually always only get market level salary increases by going elsewhere There's basically zero space in two week sprints in many companies to accommodate adequate training regardless.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  > Employees don't stay at companies long enough to warrant training them We're a smaller but growing company, and this is the case for us. If you're planning to move on in 2-3 years it's just not worth it for us to invest in you. When we grown a bit larger we might have some more positions that are compatible with short-term work, but so far we rely on devs to have a lot of independence and domain knowledge.
  - JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
    It's interesting to focus in specifically on that one when "so far we rely on devs to have a lot of independence and domain knowledge" suggests there isn't the capacity to train them anyway? And the plan to move on in 2-3 years is one which has been cultivated by the last few decades of employment norms so it's not fair to pin that one on the current group of juniors either, especially when it's equally likely most of your team will be around in 3 years either. I do get smaller companies not being able to do it, but it seems like we're reaching a point where "smaller but growing" can be stretched to mean a company with a few hundred employees and if they don't have the ability to handle juniors it's hard to know what chance most people have of getting a start.
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      We have capacity, but not a lot. Hence why we need to ensure it's not wasted. That said, sure, this isn't an issue with the latest crop. However I get the feeling from my more senior colleagues that this wasn't common back a couple of decades ago, at least here in Norway. But yeah, we've been 7 devs for a good while, we've grown to 12 over the last year or so, hence why a single person makes such a difference. Once we reach 20+ I fully expect to have room for more junior devs. If not we're doing it wrong.

atrettel 2y ago

I'm in research and I'd just like to add that in many respects, you are not treated like an adult by some people until you have completed a few postdocs. Multiple graduate degrees are simply not enough for some people.

tightbookkeeper 2y ago
Agreed. “If you just keep volunteering for committees and teaching classes maybe we’ll let you in at age 40.” This is such a strange state of affairs where traditionally getting into academia meant delaying your career from age 23 to 27 when you would become an assistant professor.