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Your comment is complicated in and of itself, even without the enormous historical, legal-theoretic and political context surrounding that law and its enactment

Your comment is complicated in and of itself, even without the enormous historical, legal-theoretic and political context surrounding that law and its enactment.

submeta 2y ago
Constantly framing it as „complicated“ does not make it so. It was populated land, home to muslims, Christians, jews. One state for all. Until Zionism started colonising Palestine. And expelled Christians and muslims. First Zionists called their conferences „Colonising Palestine“. Nothing complicated.
- underdeserver 2y ago
  Constantly claiming it is not complicated does not make it so. It was populated land - before Greeks, Romans, Christians and Muslims conquered it and ethnically cleansed the Jews from the area. There wasn't one state - in what is Israel/Palestine today, until 1948, was at least Jordan, Egypt, British Palestine and Syria. You keep oversimplifying. It's just not simple.
  - submeta 2y ago
    Ahh, here we go again: „Thousands of years ago jewish people populated the area.“ And that’s how nations define their borders in modern days? Who said it was one state? I said it was populated land. People lived there for centuries. Mostly Christian and muslim arabs. Some jewish arabs. And then came a settler colonial ideology in 19th century, way before Holocaust, polish jews, created the idea for a jewish majority homeland in an area that was populated, so they expelled many people from their homes in Palestine. And that led to first Nakba. Today we witness the second Nakba. The most detailed documentation of a Genocide. Btw: „God‘s chosen people, God‘s promised land, nation state law, jewish majority“. Sounds very racist to me. - If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it is propably a duck?
    - underdeserver 2y ago
      Here we go again with genocide and nakba and settler colonialism. Here's the thing about settler colonialism: it's when you're sent by an empire to settle on land you're not native to. Jews are native to Israel. Dig in the ground, you'll find coins and pots and tablets in Hebrew. "Thousands of years ago" is not OK, but "for centuries" is. Sorry, you don't get to choose. As for the second Nakba, October 7th really was as close to a second holocaust as the Jews experienced, one in a long line of pogroms. To do that and then hide behind and below women, children and innocent civilians you're using as human shields, that's beyond a war crime, it's a crime against humanity. As for the idea of a Jewish majority homeland, go check the bible. It predates "polish jews in the 19th century" by a few centuries.
      - Thiez 2y ago
        If you check the Bible you'll find that the Jews obtained their "homeland" through... genocide. Their deity told them to move there and kill every man, woman, child, and even the livestock already living there. They're just another invader. Then they had a kingdom that lasted about 200 years before falling apart, we can count it as almost 500 years if you want to include the kingdom of Judah time. And now it's more than 2500 years later. Jews who can't trace a single ancestor back to the Middle East for hundreds of years can somehow claim to be indigenous to the land and "return" there. And they have the right to displace or murder the people who have been living there for generations and whose genetics show their ancestors have been in that area for hundreds or thousands of years. Clearly this is an absurd standard of 'indigenous' that nobody in their right mind should take seriously. As for your other claims, they are irrelevant. Whether or not Hamas uses or has used human shields is completely unrelated to whether or not it is good or righteous to commit genocide on the Palestinians (indeed, there can be NO excuse for genocide). And if using human shields is so vile that the people of the same country deserve to be slaughtered I should point out that the Israeli military has a rich history of using Palestinian civilians (including children) as human shields. And if October 7th qualifies as a holocaust, then what Israel has done in Gaza is a holocaust ten times over.
        2y ago

Your comment is complicated in and of itself, even without the enormous historical, legal-theoretic and political context surrounding that law and its enactment.

submeta 2y ago

Constantly framing it as „complicated“ does not make it so. It was populated land, home to muslims, Christians, jews. One state for all. Until Zionism started colonising Palestine. And expelled Christians and muslims. First Zionists called their conferences „Colonising Palestine“. Nothing complicated.

underdeserver 2y ago
Constantly claiming it is not complicated does not make it so. It was populated land - before Greeks, Romans, Christians and Muslims conquered it and ethnically cleansed the Jews from the area. There wasn't one state - in what is Israel/Palestine today, until 1948, was at least Jordan, Egypt, British Palestine and Syria. You keep oversimplifying. It's just not simple.
- submeta 2y ago
  Ahh, here we go again: „Thousands of years ago jewish people populated the area.“ And that’s how nations define their borders in modern days? Who said it was one state? I said it was populated land. People lived there for centuries. Mostly Christian and muslim arabs. Some jewish arabs. And then came a settler colonial ideology in 19th century, way before Holocaust, polish jews, created the idea for a jewish majority homeland in an area that was populated, so they expelled many people from their homes in Palestine. And that led to first Nakba. Today we witness the second Nakba. The most detailed documentation of a Genocide. Btw: „God‘s chosen people, God‘s promised land, nation state law, jewish majority“. Sounds very racist to me. - If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it is propably a duck?
  - underdeserver 2y ago
    Here we go again with genocide and nakba and settler colonialism. Here's the thing about settler colonialism: it's when you're sent by an empire to settle on land you're not native to. Jews are native to Israel. Dig in the ground, you'll find coins and pots and tablets in Hebrew. "Thousands of years ago" is not OK, but "for centuries" is. Sorry, you don't get to choose. As for the second Nakba, October 7th really was as close to a second holocaust as the Jews experienced, one in a long line of pogroms. To do that and then hide behind and below women, children and innocent civilians you're using as human shields, that's beyond a war crime, it's a crime against humanity. As for the idea of a Jewish majority homeland, go check the bible. It predates "polish jews in the 19th century" by a few centuries.
    - Thiez 2y ago
      If you check the Bible you'll find that the Jews obtained their "homeland" through... genocide. Their deity told them to move there and kill every man, woman, child, and even the livestock already living there. They're just another invader. Then they had a kingdom that lasted about 200 years before falling apart, we can count it as almost 500 years if you want to include the kingdom of Judah time. And now it's more than 2500 years later. Jews who can't trace a single ancestor back to the Middle East for hundreds of years can somehow claim to be indigenous to the land and "return" there. And they have the right to displace or murder the people who have been living there for generations and whose genetics show their ancestors have been in that area for hundreds or thousands of years. Clearly this is an absurd standard of 'indigenous' that nobody in their right mind should take seriously. As for your other claims, they are irrelevant. Whether or not Hamas uses or has used human shields is completely unrelated to whether or not it is good or righteous to commit genocide on the Palestinians (indeed, there can be NO excuse for genocide). And if using human shields is so vile that the people of the same country deserve to be slaughtered I should point out that the Israeli military has a rich history of using Palestinian civilians (including children) as human shields. And if October 7th qualifies as a holocaust, then what Israel has done in Gaza is a holocaust ten times over.
      - 2y ago