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Here's a part from the "Respects your Freedom" page. The second paragraph explicitly excludes factory loaded and unupgradeable software from consideration. >Al

Here's a part from the "Respects your Freedom" page. The second paragraph explicitly excludes factory loaded and unupgradeable software from consideration. >All the product software must be free software. The product software includes all software that the seller includes in the product, provides with the product, recommends for use in conjunction with the product, and steers users towards installation in the product. >However, there is one exception for secondary embedded processors. The exception applies to software delivered inside auxiliary and low-level processors and FPGAs, within which software installation is not intended after the user obtains the product. This can include, for instance, microcode inside a processor, firmware built into an I/O device, or the gate pattern of an FPGA. The software in such secondary processors does not count as product software. Source: https://ryf.fsf.org/about/criteria https://ryf.fsf.org/about/criteria

anthk 2y ago
FPGA's are pratically dealt as if the were burned ROMs. There's no easy way to soft-update an FPGA except for expensive tools to do so. Your bare OS can't do that. A vendor can't update an FPGA based hardware at will.
- viraptor 2y ago
  What's incorrect. FP in FPGA stands for field-programmable. That's the big thing about them - you can easily reprogram them after deployment with minimal effort. Also https://github.com/trabucayre/openFPGALoader https://github.com/trabucayre/openFPGALoader
  - spookie 2y ago
    Depends. There are FPGA that can only be programmed once, others a limited amount, and others that have no limit.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      You mean with blown fuses? Sure, but that's specific implementation's choice, not an FPGA property. You could also make an SSD read-only with enough effort, but that doesn't describe SSDs in general.
      - spookie 2y ago
        I am noting a limitation. Previous claims might've led some thinking this was not the case for all.
  - exe34 2y ago
    where "minimal effort" might mean soldering wires to a surface mounted chip. for you maybe - my own hands aren't that stable.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      That's only if you want to do it externally. The claim was: > There's no easy way to soft-update an FPGA except for expensive tools to do so. If the implementation wants to support updating the FPGA then the programming can be wired in the device itself and accessible fully in software. Or even the attached SoC can reprogram it with IAP. (https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/FPGA/ApplicationNotes/ApplicationNotes/microsemi_polarfire_fpga_auto_update_and_in_application_programming_application_note_ac466_v7.pdf https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/F...) Basically it's not a technology limitation. It's the choice of the people implementing it - they can make it anywhere from trivial to almost impossible to reprogram.
      - exe34 2y ago
        crucially, it's not a choice for the user, who can treat it as hardware. so free software developers can write code on top of it and pretend it's part of the hardware - not that it's "free" as the poster above was trying to say.
exe34 2y ago
does > The software in such secondary processors does not count as product software. mean free (in the GNU sense) to you? I don't think the quote you reproduced means what you think it means.

anthk 2y ago

FPGA's are pratically dealt as if the were burned ROMs. There's no easy way to soft-update an FPGA except for expensive tools to do so. Your bare OS can't do that. A vendor can't update an FPGA based hardware at will.

viraptor 2y ago
What's incorrect. FP in FPGA stands for field-programmable. That's the big thing about them - you can easily reprogram them after deployment with minimal effort. Also https://github.com/trabucayre/openFPGALoader https://github.com/trabucayre/openFPGALoader
- spookie 2y ago
  Depends. There are FPGA that can only be programmed once, others a limited amount, and others that have no limit.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    You mean with blown fuses? Sure, but that's specific implementation's choice, not an FPGA property. You could also make an SSD read-only with enough effort, but that doesn't describe SSDs in general.
    - spookie 2y ago
      I am noting a limitation. Previous claims might've led some thinking this was not the case for all.
- exe34 2y ago
  where "minimal effort" might mean soldering wires to a surface mounted chip. for you maybe - my own hands aren't that stable.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    That's only if you want to do it externally. The claim was: > There's no easy way to soft-update an FPGA except for expensive tools to do so. If the implementation wants to support updating the FPGA then the programming can be wired in the device itself and accessible fully in software. Or even the attached SoC can reprogram it with IAP. (https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/FPGA/ApplicationNotes/ApplicationNotes/microsemi_polarfire_fpga_auto_update_and_in_application_programming_application_note_ac466_v7.pdf https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/F...) Basically it's not a technology limitation. It's the choice of the people implementing it - they can make it anywhere from trivial to almost impossible to reprogram.
    - exe34 2y ago
      crucially, it's not a choice for the user, who can treat it as hardware. so free software developers can write code on top of it and pretend it's part of the hardware - not that it's "free" as the poster above was trying to say.

exe34 2y ago

does > The software in such secondary processors does not count as product software. mean free (in the GNU sense) to you? I don't think the quote you reproduced means what you think it means.