4 ms·

Sounds like you're in a good place. Why New Zealand or Australia? On the surface, both places seem like great places to live and work, but what is your reasonin

Sounds like you're in a good place. Why New Zealand or Australia? On the surface, both places seem like great places to live and work, but what is your reasoning for choosing these destinations?

bartonfink 14y ago
First, they're English speaking countries. While my wife and I both speak German, neither of us is fluent. I know Latin quite well, but that's not going to get me very far either. I'm quite hesitant to pick up a fourth language atop all the other things I know I need to do, so for the time being we're limiting ourselves to English. Second, they're both developed countries. I have a family, and I have a responsibility to ensure that they're in a relatively safe environment with access to the same quality of life they're used to here. I also need to be able to have relatively easy access to a technical job market. I could likely get a job working remotely, but it's much easier to know that I can get an actual job if push comes to shove. Third, and perhaps most subjectively: they're closer to the parts of the world we find interesting and exciting. My wife is terribly interested in Japan, for instance, which is easier to visit from Oceania than from America (no time zone change). If I moved to Germany, for instance, I'm close to most of Europe. However, I have virtually no interest in travelling around Europe. I'm much more interested in visiting Southeast Asia, for example, or other places that are somewhat off the beaten track. This is entirely subjective, as I noted above, but it's a fact that needs to be kept in mind: we're discussing where bartonfink wants to live, not where every person on earth should live. When it comes to choosing between Australia and New Zealand, my wife and I keep changing our minds. Australia certainly has a stronger job market and larger cities with all they bring, but New Zealand seems to have a more laid-back culture that suits both of us very well. Further, from what I've heard, life in New Zealand is cheaper than life in Australia, so some of our other dreams (e.g. a beachfront house) would be a little more approachable. That said, I think we need to get the hell down there and actually visit before too long. As I said above, if Atlassian wrote me an e-mail next week and said "Barton, we dig what you do - can we pay for you to move out to Sydney by Christmas?" I'd be hard-pressed to turn that down. I'd probably need Mapquest to double my salary to push aside an opportunity like that, and it's not because I dislike Mapquest or am underpaid or anything: it's that moving abroad is very important to me because I want to feel like I live in a country because I choose to live there and not because I happened to be born there. The world is a book, and the man who does not travel only reads one page.
- mrtrombone 14y ago
  There's definitely some awesome companies in NZ open to bringing quality developers from overseas. Check out http://www.xero.com/about/careers/ http://www.xero.com/about/careers/ Note: I'm not associated with them in any way
  - RobotCaleb 14y ago
    I'm interested in hearing more about awesome companies in NZ. I've been interested in getting out there for a couple years now.
    - mrtrombone 14y ago
      Not sure what the best way to research is. A couple of websites that might help: http://www.idealog.co.nz http://www.idealog.co.nz http://unlimited.co.nz/ http://unlimited.co.nz/ Few other high profile companies: http://www.vendhq.com http://www.vendhq.com http://www.silverstripe.com http://www.silverstripe.com http://www.optimalusability.com/ http://www.optimalusability.com/ http://www.rakon.com http://www.rakon.com http://www.starnow.com http://www.starnow.com http://www.smallworlds.com http://www.smallworlds.com
      - RobotCaleb 14y ago
        Sweet, thanks! I've just been watching seek.co.nz, but the listings there are pretty mundane.
        genbattle 14y ago
        The other main site for jobs in NZ is the Jobs section of trademe.co.nz (who themselves are a pretty cool little company to work far, or so I hear). As far as startups in particular I don't know of any particular website or anything that NZ startups accumulate around, although you might find the NZ Startup Digest interesting (I found it on HN at some stage): http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=92be899ef5a892c60b4a6cd97&id=8c868b3015&e=3d63374b46 http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=92be899ef5a892c60b4a6cd9... I would recommend you also look more specifically into where in New Zealand you want to live, or at least what sort of lifestyle you want. You can easily find a technology job in Auckland or Wellington (startups also tend to gravitate towards these cities), but that comes with higher costs and a certain degree of the rat-race lifestyle. There are small local companies and startups in the provinces, but pay (and costs) will be lower and opportunities are much fewer and far between. I myself just moved out of the provinces into Wellington, and so far i'm enjoying being in a bigger pool of developers and having more things to see and do in general, but I know people who have made the opposite move as well. Feel free to contact me if you need more info. EDIT: Of course if you manage to get a remote job, it won't matter much where you live, provinces or otherwise :-)

Sounds like you're in a good place. Why New Zealand or Australia? On the surface, both places seem like great places to live and work, but what is your reasoning for choosing these destinations?

bartonfink 14y ago

First, they're English speaking countries. While my wife and I both speak German, neither of us is fluent. I know Latin quite well, but that's not going to get me very far either. I'm quite hesitant to pick up a fourth language atop all the other things I know I need to do, so for the time being we're limiting ourselves to English. Second, they're both developed countries. I have a family, and I have a responsibility to ensure that they're in a relatively safe environment with access to the same quality of life they're used to here. I also need to be able to have relatively easy access to a technical job market. I could likely get a job working remotely, but it's much easier to know that I can get an actual job if push comes to shove. Third, and perhaps most subjectively: they're closer to the parts of the world we find interesting and exciting. My wife is terribly interested in Japan, for instance, which is easier to visit from Oceania than from America (no time zone change). If I moved to Germany, for instance, I'm close to most of Europe. However, I have virtually no interest in travelling around Europe. I'm much more interested in visiting Southeast Asia, for example, or other places that are somewhat off the beaten track. This is entirely subjective, as I noted above, but it's a fact that needs to be kept in mind: we're discussing where bartonfink wants to live, not where every person on earth should live. When it comes to choosing between Australia and New Zealand, my wife and I keep changing our minds. Australia certainly has a stronger job market and larger cities with all they bring, but New Zealand seems to have a more laid-back culture that suits both of us very well. Further, from what I've heard, life in New Zealand is cheaper than life in Australia, so some of our other dreams (e.g. a beachfront house) would be a little more approachable. That said, I think we need to get the hell down there and actually visit before too long. As I said above, if Atlassian wrote me an e-mail next week and said "Barton, we dig what you do - can we pay for you to move out to Sydney by Christmas?" I'd be hard-pressed to turn that down. I'd probably need Mapquest to double my salary to push aside an opportunity like that, and it's not because I dislike Mapquest or am underpaid or anything: it's that moving abroad is very important to me because I want to feel like I live in a country because I choose to live there and not because I happened to be born there. The world is a book, and the man who does not travel only reads one page.

mrtrombone 14y ago
There's definitely some awesome companies in NZ open to bringing quality developers from overseas. Check out http://www.xero.com/about/careers/ http://www.xero.com/about/careers/ Note: I'm not associated with them in any way
- RobotCaleb 14y ago
  I'm interested in hearing more about awesome companies in NZ. I've been interested in getting out there for a couple years now.
  - mrtrombone 14y ago
    Not sure what the best way to research is. A couple of websites that might help: http://www.idealog.co.nz http://www.idealog.co.nz http://unlimited.co.nz/ http://unlimited.co.nz/ Few other high profile companies: http://www.vendhq.com http://www.vendhq.com http://www.silverstripe.com http://www.silverstripe.com http://www.optimalusability.com/ http://www.optimalusability.com/ http://www.rakon.com http://www.rakon.com http://www.starnow.com http://www.starnow.com http://www.smallworlds.com http://www.smallworlds.com
    - RobotCaleb 14y ago
      Sweet, thanks! I've just been watching seek.co.nz, but the listings there are pretty mundane.
      - genbattle 14y ago
        The other main site for jobs in NZ is the Jobs section of trademe.co.nz (who themselves are a pretty cool little company to work far, or so I hear). As far as startups in particular I don't know of any particular website or anything that NZ startups accumulate around, although you might find the NZ Startup Digest interesting (I found it on HN at some stage): http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=92be899ef5a892c60b4a6cd97&id=8c868b3015&e=3d63374b46 http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=92be899ef5a892c60b4a6cd9... I would recommend you also look more specifically into where in New Zealand you want to live, or at least what sort of lifestyle you want. You can easily find a technology job in Auckland or Wellington (startups also tend to gravitate towards these cities), but that comes with higher costs and a certain degree of the rat-race lifestyle. There are small local companies and startups in the provinces, but pay (and costs) will be lower and opportunities are much fewer and far between. I myself just moved out of the provinces into Wellington, and so far i'm enjoying being in a bigger pool of developers and having more things to see and do in general, but I know people who have made the opposite move as well. Feel free to contact me if you need more info. EDIT: Of course if you manage to get a remote job, it won't matter much where you live, provinces or otherwise :-)