3 ms·

I didn’t say it wasn’t a firearm.

by borski 2y ago

pc86 2y ago
> > In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and ... [it's] no longer illegal. This is not accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your intent--absolutely possible, which is why I am responding over a day later :) The lower is the firearm, and if it has CA-illegal features on it, it will remain illegal. If you're referring to things like a threaded barrel, or a vertical foregrip (no idea if these are actually illegal in CA, just examples), or other things that are attached to the upper, when they're separated those things are no longer attached to a firearm because they're attached to the upper, which is no longer a firearm when it's separated. This isn't a loophole, this is a natural consequence of the fact that if you take a firearm and separate it into two pieces, at most one of those things can legally be a firearm - you can't turn one firearm into two firearms by breaking it in half.
- borski 2y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful response! Yes, I think a misunderstanding and/or I was unclear. I never intended to make the claim that separating the upper and lower somehow makes neither a firearm. That was not my intent at all. Of course the lower is still a firearm, still needs to be serialized, legal, etc. There are also some named firearms in the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 and those would be illegal no matter what, broken apart or not. Obviously naming specific weapons was idiotic and not going to last a very long time, since keeping the list up to date was impossible, so... In 1999, the act was amended (P.C. 35015), and named specific features that would make a firearm an assault weapon. The amendment states that a semiautomatic, center-fire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any of the features below, is deemed an assault weapon: * a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. * a thumbhole stock. * a folding or telescoping stock. * a grenade launcher or flare launcher. * a flash suppressor. * a forward pistol grip. All of which are pretty clearly target AR and AR-like firearms. Now, to be specific about what I was trying to say: California does not have the concept of constructive possession, unlike the federal government, as applied to assault weapons. As such, separated parts cannot constitute a CA assault weapon, unless the lower is already registered as such, or said lower is on the list of named CA assault weapons. If it is disassembled, it is considered to be weapon parts, and not the actual weapon itself. However, depending on the DA, they may still come after you under P.C. 12280(a), stating that you are attempting to possess an assault weapon. The sticking point for them is showing intent, but they have convicted on possession and research of how to assemble an assault weapon in the past.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a firearm.

by borski 2y ago

I didn’t say it wasn’t a firearm.

pc86 2y ago

> > In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and ... [it's] no longer illegal. This is not accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your intent--absolutely possible, which is why I am responding over a day later :) The lower is the firearm, and if it has CA-illegal features on it, it will remain illegal. If you're referring to things like a threaded barrel, or a vertical foregrip (no idea if these are actually illegal in CA, just examples), or other things that are attached to the upper, when they're separated those things are no longer attached to a firearm because they're attached to the upper, which is no longer a firearm when it's separated. This isn't a loophole, this is a natural consequence of the fact that if you take a firearm and separate it into two pieces, at most one of those things can legally be a firearm - you can't turn one firearm into two firearms by breaking it in half.

borski 2y ago
Thanks for the thoughtful response! Yes, I think a misunderstanding and/or I was unclear. I never intended to make the claim that separating the upper and lower somehow makes neither a firearm. That was not my intent at all. Of course the lower is still a firearm, still needs to be serialized, legal, etc. There are also some named firearms in the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 and those would be illegal no matter what, broken apart or not. Obviously naming specific weapons was idiotic and not going to last a very long time, since keeping the list up to date was impossible, so... In 1999, the act was amended (P.C. 35015), and named specific features that would make a firearm an assault weapon. The amendment states that a semiautomatic, center-fire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any of the features below, is deemed an assault weapon: * a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. * a thumbhole stock. * a folding or telescoping stock. * a grenade launcher or flare launcher. * a flash suppressor. * a forward pistol grip. All of which are pretty clearly target AR and AR-like firearms. Now, to be specific about what I was trying to say: California does not have the concept of constructive possession, unlike the federal government, as applied to assault weapons. As such, separated parts cannot constitute a CA assault weapon, unless the lower is already registered as such, or said lower is on the list of named CA assault weapons. If it is disassembled, it is considered to be weapon parts, and not the actual weapon itself. However, depending on the DA, they may still come after you under P.C. 12280(a), stating that you are attempting to possess an assault weapon. The sticking point for them is showing intent, but they have convicted on possession and research of how to assemble an assault weapon in the past.