4 ms·

So does webOS, which will be open sourced by HP as "Open webOS 1.0" in September under the Apache license.

by j_col 14y ago

Yoric 14y ago
In the case of webOS, I am sure: this is not actual HTML 5 but a very specific SDK/framework designed for writing applications specifically for webOS, not for other platforms or the web. In effect, this means that webOS has almost all the drawbacks of working with HTML5 (no static analysis, performance often difficult to predict, etc.) but none of the benefits (cross-platform, ability to use CoffeeScript or GWT or OCaml or any other language that compiles to JS). By opposition, Firefox OS apps are cross-platform, can be developed with any tool, etc. edit Yes, it is possible to write apps using standard HTML5 for WebOS. What is impossible is to write apps using standard HTML5 for WebOS that take any advantage of WebOS (sending SMS, receiving phone calls, etc.). By opposition to Firefox OS, in which even SMS, phone calls, etc. are based on open standards.
- bergie 14y ago
  Enyo, the framework used for webOS apps seems to now advertise cross-platform support: http://enyojs.com/ http://enyojs.com/ Now available for desktop and cross-browser development - Enyo 2.0 now runs across mobile environments and desktop browsers including Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer
  - Yoric 14y ago
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Enyo is just the widget toolkit, which is a very small subset of the features of WebOS. IIRC, WebOS also had APIs for, say, sending or receiving SMS, vibrating the device, etc – and none of these were (or are) standardized.
- j_col 14y ago
  > ...but a very specific SDK/framework designed for writing applications specifically for webOS, not for other platforms or the web. That is incorrect. Apps written for webOS that use the EnyoJS framework are currently seen running on iOS, RIM (Playbook), Android, and even in the Chrome web browser.
  - Yoric 14y ago
    Again, correct me if I am wrong, but i believe that these applications cannot send or receive SMS, phone calls, VideoConf calls, using the WebOS APIs on the devices that you describe. In other words, while EnyoJS may be cross-platform, it represents only a small fraction of the features of WebOS.
    - j_col 14y ago
      But it is still an open source cross-platform HTML5/Javascript based platform. Of course it will not enable you to, for example, send an SMS via an app running in a Chrome web browser, but I would have thought that was a given for any such platform.
      - asadotzler 14y ago
        Windows 8 is also a HTML/JS based platform. It's not "the Web" either.
- cs702 14y ago
  Not only that, but Firefox is a de-facto standard. The HTML extensions adopted by the Firefox Mobile OS team will be not just open, but also widely used from day one -- they will be present in all desktop, tablet, and mobile editions of Firefox across all hardware and OS platforms in which the browser is available.
  - riffraff 14y ago
    pardon my lack of understanding, but what would APIs to send SMSs, dial a number, or vibrate my phone do in my desktop browser? I mean, if they are unique to devices for which they make sense (i.e. phones) than webOS' APIs seem to be just as standard.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      Vibration, nothing. Dialing a number or sending an SMS would be sent of to external apps (like Skype), or if none are installed, fail with an error message.
      - fczuardi 14y ago
        I guess that Vibration webAPI could be implemented on a desktop user agent to activate the vibration of a connected playstation joystick for example, but maybe that's a different API…
        TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        There's a game controller API, not sure if it has vibration.
    - Yoric 14y ago
      While these APIs can arguably make some sense on a desktop browser, I get your point that not all capabilities can be cross-platform. What I was pointing out is that EnyoJS or WebOS or Tizen (afaik) do not make any effort at such portability. Sending a SMS makes as much sense on a WebOS-based device as on an iPhone, an Android smartphone or any other platform. This is one of the key differences between initiatives such as WebOS, Windows 8 or, to a lesser extent, Chrome OS on one side and Firefox OS on the other side. While these OSes offer the features of HTML 5 and some proprietary, non-standardized, non-portable extensions APIs for taking advantage of platform-specific capabilities, Firefox + Firefox OS push to make these capabilities 1/ accessible on all platforms where they makes sense; 2/ standardized so that other browser or os vendors can implement them as they see fit. The difference is subtle but meaningful. This is the difference between "come and program for my silo platform" and "come and program on everybody's web platform".

So does webOS, which will be open sourced by HP as "Open webOS 1.0" in September under the Apache license.

by j_col 14y ago

So does webOS, which will be open sourced by HP as "Open webOS 1.0" in September under the Apache license.

Yoric 14y ago

In the case of webOS, I am sure: this is not actual HTML 5 but a very specific SDK/framework designed for writing applications specifically for webOS, not for other platforms or the web. In effect, this means that webOS has almost all the drawbacks of working with HTML5 (no static analysis, performance often difficult to predict, etc.) but none of the benefits (cross-platform, ability to use CoffeeScript or GWT or OCaml or any other language that compiles to JS). By opposition, Firefox OS apps are cross-platform, can be developed with any tool, etc. edit Yes, it is possible to write apps using standard HTML5 for WebOS. What is impossible is to write apps using standard HTML5 for WebOS that take any advantage of WebOS (sending SMS, receiving phone calls, etc.). By opposition to Firefox OS, in which even SMS, phone calls, etc. are based on open standards.

bergie 14y ago
Enyo, the framework used for webOS apps seems to now advertise cross-platform support: http://enyojs.com/ http://enyojs.com/ Now available for desktop and cross-browser development - Enyo 2.0 now runs across mobile environments and desktop browsers including Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer
- Yoric 14y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Enyo is just the widget toolkit, which is a very small subset of the features of WebOS. IIRC, WebOS also had APIs for, say, sending or receiving SMS, vibrating the device, etc – and none of these were (or are) standardized.
j_col 14y ago
> ...but a very specific SDK/framework designed for writing applications specifically for webOS, not for other platforms or the web. That is incorrect. Apps written for webOS that use the EnyoJS framework are currently seen running on iOS, RIM (Playbook), Android, and even in the Chrome web browser.
- Yoric 14y ago
  Again, correct me if I am wrong, but i believe that these applications cannot send or receive SMS, phone calls, VideoConf calls, using the WebOS APIs on the devices that you describe. In other words, while EnyoJS may be cross-platform, it represents only a small fraction of the features of WebOS.
  - j_col 14y ago
    But it is still an open source cross-platform HTML5/Javascript based platform. Of course it will not enable you to, for example, send an SMS via an app running in a Chrome web browser, but I would have thought that was a given for any such platform.
    - asadotzler 14y ago
      Windows 8 is also a HTML/JS based platform. It's not "the Web" either.
cs702 14y ago
Not only that, but Firefox is a de-facto standard. The HTML extensions adopted by the Firefox Mobile OS team will be not just open, but also widely used from day one -- they will be present in all desktop, tablet, and mobile editions of Firefox across all hardware and OS platforms in which the browser is available.
- riffraff 14y ago
  pardon my lack of understanding, but what would APIs to send SMSs, dial a number, or vibrate my phone do in my desktop browser? I mean, if they are unique to devices for which they make sense (i.e. phones) than webOS' APIs seem to be just as standard.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Vibration, nothing. Dialing a number or sending an SMS would be sent of to external apps (like Skype), or if none are installed, fail with an error message.
    - fczuardi 14y ago
      I guess that Vibration webAPI could be implemented on a desktop user agent to activate the vibration of a connected playstation joystick for example, but maybe that's a different API…
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        There's a game controller API, not sure if it has vibration.
  - Yoric 14y ago
    While these APIs can arguably make some sense on a desktop browser, I get your point that not all capabilities can be cross-platform. What I was pointing out is that EnyoJS or WebOS or Tizen (afaik) do not make any effort at such portability. Sending a SMS makes as much sense on a WebOS-based device as on an iPhone, an Android smartphone or any other platform. This is one of the key differences between initiatives such as WebOS, Windows 8 or, to a lesser extent, Chrome OS on one side and Firefox OS on the other side. While these OSes offer the features of HTML 5 and some proprietary, non-standardized, non-portable extensions APIs for taking advantage of platform-specific capabilities, Firefox + Firefox OS push to make these capabilities 1/ accessible on all platforms where they makes sense; 2/ standardized so that other browser or os vendors can implement them as they see fit. The difference is subtle but meaningful. This is the difference between "come and program for my silo platform" and "come and program on everybody's web platform".