4 ms·

sort of off topic, but does anyone else have the experience of consistently having bad interactions in real life any time autism is discussed? like the reasons

by 93po 2y ago

sort of off topic, but does anyone else have the experience of consistently having bad interactions in real life any time autism is discussed? like the reasons are so varied but it's so consistently not great. i feel like it's rooted in a "i know autism better than you and i feel threatened anytime something is expressed that differs from my own opinion/experience with it". and sometimes people are offended with any opinion or anecdote or experience expressed on it at all in a "don't mansplain autism to me" sort of way (i'm not a man, just to be clear, and obv mansplaining isnt unique to men). not saying this to be unkind or mean to anyone. it just feels like such a super touchy topic. i started completely not engaging in conversation around it at all and pretending like i don't know anything about it.

uncletaco 2y ago
No. The greatest interaction I had was when a kid didn’t hold a door for me and his mom said “I’m sorry he has Asperger’s and it’s a little heavy on the ass.” Then we ended up in the same waiting room for a while and she talked about accommodating her son and how they managed it. What was really interesting is the kid looked like it was the first time he heard his mom talk to someone else about it and him and I could tell he was embarrassed but really loving her that moment.
- cuttysnark 2y ago
  > it's a little heavy on the ass I hadn't heard this idiom before so I looked it up and I couldn't find anything relevant. What does this phrase mean in this context?
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    The first syllable of Asperger sounds like “ass”, and the mom was making a pun based on that fact (pointing out that her son’s Asperger’s made him an ass).
    - cuttysnark 2y ago
      Saying it out loud made it click. Thank you.
tapland 2y ago
I see this but usually only when someone who has never saught a diagnosis or have any shared experiences keeps referring to their supposed autism in a community with a lot of autistic people who will backlash. Never seen a discussion go bad _about_ it.
vampirical 2y ago
You’re probably going to think I’m very presumptuous but I’m going to say this anyway in case it is helpful for you. If people are frequently offended when you speak on a topic you’re probably being offensive somehow through content or delivery. In my experience the thought “[they] feel threatened anytime something is expressed that differs from […]” is not accurate and it also turns off your brain on trying to figure out what is actually going on. I can recommend from personal experience a small apology and transition to more listening in that moment. If more feels appropriate, giving it some time and space and re-engaging gently to discover what went on for them in that moment can yield a lot of value for both sides.
- 93po 2y ago
  i appreciate the response, this is something i have already considered and i agree there could have been some element to my tone or delivery that contributes to their reaction, though i also don't necessarily claim responsibility for their reaction. i agree the wording on my post you're replying to comes across the way you're describing. i have more nuanced thoughts about this but it's a lot to type, but will end by saying thank you for the kindly worded comment
23B1 2y ago
The hardest part for me is understanding the difference between legitimate diagnoses and people who use it as a sort of veneer for antisocial behavior.
- 93po 2y ago
  i mean the point of language is to communicate, saying "i have autism" is usually done to give context to someone's behavior or how to interact with them (though obviously autism is very different person to person). i think this is a tricky conversation because someone could argue the "stolen valor" of autism might cause issues when someone says they have autism, but doesn't, and then the person interacting with them uses it as a learning experience in how to interact with autistic people in the future. however i'm not really sure this holds up as a decent argument, because as it's said all the time and i said earlier, you can't make assumptions about how to interact best with any given person who has autism. you have to ask, "is there anything i can do to make you comfortable or help?", if it's appropriate to do so, and see what they in particular need.
- nullc 2y ago
  Your two groups aren't mutually exclusionary. It's possible to have a legitimate diagnosis and also to abuse that diagnosis to attempt to excuse anti-social behavior. I point this out because at the end of the day a person's diagnosis is for them-- hopefully it helps them get the support they need to have a more successful life. For the rest of us we just need to deal with behavior we will or won't accept. We should try to afford people some tolerance, diagnosis or not. But ultimately if someone is unwilling or unable to behave in an acceptable way then we won't continue interacting with them. This can happen via a venue rejecting misbehaving participants, or it can happen by behaving participants rejecting a venue that has failed to regulate the conduct of its other participants.
ggm 2y ago
It is certainly one of several topics which really demand some caution to raise, such as religion, abortion, women's reproductive rights and the sexuality/gender debate, not to mention trigger warnings, campus DEI politics and academic freedom. I am always abashed when I walk into this space and frequently resent it when I am led into it by others. I like to imagine during the late 18th and early 19th century it was equally hard to have dispassionate discussions about slavery. In the 1920s alcoholism, and feminism. Since many years in many cultures homosexuality and according to Pierre telhard de Chardin almost always since we have looked back in time incest. I think he argued for a genetic component but perhaps not in as many words. Consider the Rosenbergs, or David Irvine, or Sir Anthony Blunt, and how rancorous debate got. Or, F.R. Leavis and the academic career paths for professors of English at that time. I knew academics whose careers were ruined by being in the wrong department at the wrong time by that. Or eugenics which until the Nazi rise to power was a tolerably normalised debate. Personally, I am glad we cast that into a different tone of voice but in context it might be indicative of like cases in times past.
Fnoord 2y ago
My wife and I are on the spectrum hence we read up on it regularly. Especially when we were first diagnosed. Lately we read more on it given our kids are likely on the spectrum with our oldest being in a diagnosis trajectory. One major thing which annoys me is when autism is being used as a curse-word. Such as 'no autism please' when looking for people to play with in an online game. The irony being this is possibly (non-diagnosed) high functioning autistic who don't want to play with low(er) functioning autistic. One thing to do in such a case is join and prove them wrong (that you are good enough) and then leave saying 'btw I am on the spectrum'. But it generally isn't worth the hassle. If someone uses such language, they're likely toxic, so I just avoid them. Plus, there is the ignore list. This works reasonably well. Though I also use this to ignore people whom I find under-performing. But one thing which comes to mind is that even though I am on the spectrum it is simply untrue you are compatible with other people who are on the spectrum. For example, when I am under stress I make certain sounds (coping) which my wife finds super annoying. I also remember a guy being hardcore Christian and on the spectrum (he gets annoyed when I curse), while we are agnostic.
- nullc 2y ago
  > One major thing which annoys me is when autism is being used as a curse-word. Such as 'no autism please' when looking for people to play with in an online game. I wouldn't read that as a curse word. We always have to abbreviate when we communicate. One way to read "(no autism please)" is "I've had negative experiences playing with people exhibiting behaviors that I think others (rightly or wrongly) understand as autism and/or I've complained to players about their conduct and received autism as an excuse/justification. I'm not currently feeling up to dealing with that-- maybe due to my own pathologies--, so if you think you might behave that way please find someone else who is feeling more tolerant." And that's something we can sympathize with, even if sometimes feeling excluded can be disappointing, or knowing that someone might stereotype you might feel reductive and objectifying. But at the same time, no one is entitled to anyone elses time, and it's usually better that someone tells you their preferences rather than feeling those things and saying nothing.
  - Fnoord 2y ago
faeriechangling 2y ago
Yes because the diagnostic label is over broad to the point of meaninglessness and people have their own independently valid reasons for wanting autism to be interpreted as either a mild or severe disability because the diagnostic label is over broad to the point of meaninglessness. Autism and "severe autism" in particular need to be addressed using totally different words.

by 93po 2y ago

uncletaco 2y ago

No. The greatest interaction I had was when a kid didn’t hold a door for me and his mom said “I’m sorry he has Asperger’s and it’s a little heavy on the ass.” Then we ended up in the same waiting room for a while and she talked about accommodating her son and how they managed it. What was really interesting is the kid looked like it was the first time he heard his mom talk to someone else about it and him and I could tell he was embarrassed but really loving her that moment.

cuttysnark 2y ago
> it's a little heavy on the ass I hadn't heard this idiom before so I looked it up and I couldn't find anything relevant. What does this phrase mean in this context?
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  The first syllable of Asperger sounds like “ass”, and the mom was making a pun based on that fact (pointing out that her son’s Asperger’s made him an ass).
  - cuttysnark 2y ago
    Saying it out loud made it click. Thank you.

tapland 2y ago

I see this but usually only when someone who has never saught a diagnosis or have any shared experiences keeps referring to their supposed autism in a community with a lot of autistic people who will backlash. Never seen a discussion go bad _about_ it.

vampirical 2y ago

You’re probably going to think I’m very presumptuous but I’m going to say this anyway in case it is helpful for you. If people are frequently offended when you speak on a topic you’re probably being offensive somehow through content or delivery. In my experience the thought “[they] feel threatened anytime something is expressed that differs from […]” is not accurate and it also turns off your brain on trying to figure out what is actually going on. I can recommend from personal experience a small apology and transition to more listening in that moment. If more feels appropriate, giving it some time and space and re-engaging gently to discover what went on for them in that moment can yield a lot of value for both sides.

93po 2y ago
i appreciate the response, this is something i have already considered and i agree there could have been some element to my tone or delivery that contributes to their reaction, though i also don't necessarily claim responsibility for their reaction. i agree the wording on my post you're replying to comes across the way you're describing. i have more nuanced thoughts about this but it's a lot to type, but will end by saying thank you for the kindly worded comment

23B1 2y ago

The hardest part for me is understanding the difference between legitimate diagnoses and people who use it as a sort of veneer for antisocial behavior.

93po 2y ago
i mean the point of language is to communicate, saying "i have autism" is usually done to give context to someone's behavior or how to interact with them (though obviously autism is very different person to person). i think this is a tricky conversation because someone could argue the "stolen valor" of autism might cause issues when someone says they have autism, but doesn't, and then the person interacting with them uses it as a learning experience in how to interact with autistic people in the future. however i'm not really sure this holds up as a decent argument, because as it's said all the time and i said earlier, you can't make assumptions about how to interact best with any given person who has autism. you have to ask, "is there anything i can do to make you comfortable or help?", if it's appropriate to do so, and see what they in particular need.
nullc 2y ago
Your two groups aren't mutually exclusionary. It's possible to have a legitimate diagnosis and also to abuse that diagnosis to attempt to excuse anti-social behavior. I point this out because at the end of the day a person's diagnosis is for them-- hopefully it helps them get the support they need to have a more successful life. For the rest of us we just need to deal with behavior we will or won't accept. We should try to afford people some tolerance, diagnosis or not. But ultimately if someone is unwilling or unable to behave in an acceptable way then we won't continue interacting with them. This can happen via a venue rejecting misbehaving participants, or it can happen by behaving participants rejecting a venue that has failed to regulate the conduct of its other participants.

ggm 2y ago

It is certainly one of several topics which really demand some caution to raise, such as religion, abortion, women's reproductive rights and the sexuality/gender debate, not to mention trigger warnings, campus DEI politics and academic freedom. I am always abashed when I walk into this space and frequently resent it when I am led into it by others. I like to imagine during the late 18th and early 19th century it was equally hard to have dispassionate discussions about slavery. In the 1920s alcoholism, and feminism. Since many years in many cultures homosexuality and according to Pierre telhard de Chardin almost always since we have looked back in time incest. I think he argued for a genetic component but perhaps not in as many words. Consider the Rosenbergs, or David Irvine, or Sir Anthony Blunt, and how rancorous debate got. Or, F.R. Leavis and the academic career paths for professors of English at that time. I knew academics whose careers were ruined by being in the wrong department at the wrong time by that. Or eugenics which until the Nazi rise to power was a tolerably normalised debate. Personally, I am glad we cast that into a different tone of voice but in context it might be indicative of like cases in times past.

Fnoord 2y ago

My wife and I are on the spectrum hence we read up on it regularly. Especially when we were first diagnosed. Lately we read more on it given our kids are likely on the spectrum with our oldest being in a diagnosis trajectory. One major thing which annoys me is when autism is being used as a curse-word. Such as 'no autism please' when looking for people to play with in an online game. The irony being this is possibly (non-diagnosed) high functioning autistic who don't want to play with low(er) functioning autistic. One thing to do in such a case is join and prove them wrong (that you are good enough) and then leave saying 'btw I am on the spectrum'. But it generally isn't worth the hassle. If someone uses such language, they're likely toxic, so I just avoid them. Plus, there is the ignore list. This works reasonably well. Though I also use this to ignore people whom I find under-performing. But one thing which comes to mind is that even though I am on the spectrum it is simply untrue you are compatible with other people who are on the spectrum. For example, when I am under stress I make certain sounds (coping) which my wife finds super annoying. I also remember a guy being hardcore Christian and on the spectrum (he gets annoyed when I curse), while we are agnostic.

nullc 2y ago
> One major thing which annoys me is when autism is being used as a curse-word. Such as 'no autism please' when looking for people to play with in an online game. I wouldn't read that as a curse word. We always have to abbreviate when we communicate. One way to read "(no autism please)" is "I've had negative experiences playing with people exhibiting behaviors that I think others (rightly or wrongly) understand as autism and/or I've complained to players about their conduct and received autism as an excuse/justification. I'm not currently feeling up to dealing with that-- maybe due to my own pathologies--, so if you think you might behave that way please find someone else who is feeling more tolerant." And that's something we can sympathize with, even if sometimes feeling excluded can be disappointing, or knowing that someone might stereotype you might feel reductive and objectifying. But at the same time, no one is entitled to anyone elses time, and it's usually better that someone tells you their preferences rather than feeling those things and saying nothing.
- Fnoord 2y ago

faeriechangling 2y ago

Yes because the diagnostic label is over broad to the point of meaninglessness and people have their own independently valid reasons for wanting autism to be interpreted as either a mild or severe disability because the diagnostic label is over broad to the point of meaninglessness. Autism and "severe autism" in particular need to be addressed using totally different words.