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I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn

I can wholeheartedly recommend Svelte. As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS, it lets me build projects quickly and efficiently without having to learn something complex like React. Case in point this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend: https://meoweler.com https://meoweler.com

willy_k 2y ago
That website is actually a great way to compare options, thanks for sharing! I did find that it gives a 500 error for Birmingham, AL specifically, if you’re still working on it.
- levmiseri 2y ago
  Thanks! I plan to do a better pass over all cities with a new update to the site.
dangsux 2y ago
[dead]
joshdavham 2y ago
> As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS This is also why I chose SvelteKit as my first framework. I was actually pretty fluent in vanilla since my first real web project was a full stack chrome extension, but when it came time to choose a framework for my first true web app, I chose Svelte because it was the only framework I could immediately understand.
rukshn 2y ago
This is a really nice website. Few things, for me the domain name is difficult to remember The page doesn’t fully scroll down for me and the discord button is not accessible on mobile Other than that the site it nice
NetOpWibby 2y ago
> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS Svelte reminded me of how I got my start with coding. I love it. Refusing to learn React has cost me job opportunities but Svelte is just so much more pleasant to use and easy to grok. I’m currently building a social network with SvelteKit and I couldn’t be happier. Excellent DX.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- maxpage 2y ago
  It has so much vanilla js & CSS vibes. Brings back the time when building web was so simple. > easy to grok got me :)
incrudible 2y ago
> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not. The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at the end of the day, it is really just Javascript/Typescript. It is programming. As a programmer, I want to spend most of my time programming in a programming language, not so much of it configuring the Rube-Goldberg machine that is HTML/CSS. Your mileage may vary, of course. > this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend I will admit, that's what Svelte excels at.
- lofaszvanitt 2y ago
  It's a bloated, unnecessarily overcomplicated piece of trash.
  - martpie 2y ago
    That the whole industry embraced. Not bad for a piece of trash.
    - throwawayie6 2y ago
      As someone who had to work around the bugs and limitations of IE6 for years in the enterprise, popularity is not a measurement of how good a technology is. The reason React is "embraced" by the industry is that it is widely used, not because it's the best choice. This lowers the risk for companies that can replace its developers with another easily. I'm not saying it's as bad as beeing stuck with a stale IE (yet), but there are surely good alternatives out there. "Nobody has been fired for choosing IBM", was a saying that applies to React today It has reached the "IBM" point where it's so widely used, that it has become the most rational choice for enterprise. We have to wait for a few years while smaller businesses who don't have (or care about) the same risks uses better alternatives until they reach the point where you are not blamed for choosing something outside the box
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
It's "cybernetically enhanced"!
rikroots 2y ago
I went with Svelte when I built out the website for my canvas library a few years back[1]. It's proved to be easy to maintain the site, and I particularly like that it supported my vanilla JS library (which I use on the site's landing page) with minimal fuss. At some point I want to update the site to use Sveltekit, which I'd been experimenting with in personal projects. But then the team announced Svelte 5 and these things called "runes" and ... I don't know. Having just passed my 60th birthday I'm getting to a stage in my life when keeping up with all the New Shiny makes me wonder if it's worth the effort, or if I should be doing more interesting stuff like creating new content for the site instead. [1] - https://scrawl-v8.rikweb.org.uk/ https://scrawl-v8.rikweb.org.uk/
- nsonha 2y ago
  It's funny because very early on the key selling point of Svelte was that you just mutate objects and it compiles to the observable pattern, unlike React's clunky setState syntax. Now, somehow magic symbols in the code is supposed to be an improvement? It doesn't seem that different from React's magic hooks these days. Is there some mysterious force of nature that binds front-end frameworks to bad decision making?
  - lowboy 2y ago
    I haven’t had the chance to use Svelte in even a semi-serious project. From what I’ve tracked, Runes allow for better handling state complexity and allowing finer grained explicit control of reactivity. Maybe you don’t need that. Seems like a bunch of the Svelte community did. I wouldn’t frame that as a bad decision.
  - kirso 2y ago
    There is probably a reason they did with a ground-up rebuild and partially this is because svelte 4 didn't enable universal reactivity and $ was more confusing than useful. Furthermore <slot /> had limitations in terms of children which made it difficult to build UI libraries. Svelte 5 now is actually simpler to learn for new comers despite higher verbosity. I love it!
klysm 2y ago
I found svelte more complicated than react to make work in practice

willy_k 2y ago

That website is actually a great way to compare options, thanks for sharing! I did find that it gives a 500 error for Birmingham, AL specifically, if you’re still working on it.

levmiseri 2y ago
Thanks! I plan to do a better pass over all cities with a new update to the site.

dangsux 2y ago

[dead]

joshdavham 2y ago

> As someone who can only do vanilla HTML/CSS/JS This is also why I chose SvelteKit as my first framework. I was actually pretty fluent in vanilla since my first real web project was a full stack chrome extension, but when it came time to choose a framework for my first true web app, I chose Svelte because it was the only framework I could immediately understand.

rukshn 2y ago

This is a really nice website. Few things, for me the domain name is difficult to remember The page doesn’t fully scroll down for me and the discord button is not accessible on mobile Other than that the site it nice

NetOpWibby 2y ago

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS Svelte reminded me of how I got my start with coding. I love it. Refusing to learn React has cost me job opportunities but Svelte is just so much more pleasant to use and easy to grok. I’m currently building a social network with SvelteKit and I couldn’t be happier. Excellent DX.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
maxpage 2y ago
It has so much vanilla js & CSS vibes. Brings back the time when building web was so simple. > easy to grok got me :)

incrudible 2y ago

> vanilla HTML/CSS/JS ...but that's what Svelte is not. The techniques you adopt won't transfer over to vanilla HTML/CSS/JS without the magic Svelte compiler. These habits will become crutch when Svelte inevitably goes the way of every Javascript frontend framework. > something complex like React React is not that complex, certainly not more so than Svelte. It's hard to wrap your head around some behaviors, but at the end of the day, it is really just Javascript/Typescript. It is programming. As a programmer, I want to spend most of my time programming in a programming language, not so much of it configuring the Rube-Goldberg machine that is HTML/CSS. Your mileage may vary, of course. > this silly side project made in Svelte over a weekend I will admit, that's what Svelte excels at.

lofaszvanitt 2y ago
It's a bloated, unnecessarily overcomplicated piece of trash.
- martpie 2y ago
  That the whole industry embraced. Not bad for a piece of trash.
  - throwawayie6 2y ago
    As someone who had to work around the bugs and limitations of IE6 for years in the enterprise, popularity is not a measurement of how good a technology is. The reason React is "embraced" by the industry is that it is widely used, not because it's the best choice. This lowers the risk for companies that can replace its developers with another easily. I'm not saying it's as bad as beeing stuck with a stale IE (yet), but there are surely good alternatives out there. "Nobody has been fired for choosing IBM", was a saying that applies to React today It has reached the "IBM" point where it's so widely used, that it has become the most rational choice for enterprise. We have to wait for a few years while smaller businesses who don't have (or care about) the same risks uses better alternatives until they reach the point where you are not blamed for choosing something outside the box

lofaszvanitt 2y ago

It's "cybernetically enhanced"!

rikroots 2y ago

I went with Svelte when I built out the website for my canvas library a few years back[1]. It's proved to be easy to maintain the site, and I particularly like that it supported my vanilla JS library (which I use on the site's landing page) with minimal fuss. At some point I want to update the site to use Sveltekit, which I'd been experimenting with in personal projects. But then the team announced Svelte 5 and these things called "runes" and ... I don't know. Having just passed my 60th birthday I'm getting to a stage in my life when keeping up with all the New Shiny makes me wonder if it's worth the effort, or if I should be doing more interesting stuff like creating new content for the site instead. [1] - https://scrawl-v8.rikweb.org.uk/ https://scrawl-v8.rikweb.org.uk/

nsonha 2y ago
It's funny because very early on the key selling point of Svelte was that you just mutate objects and it compiles to the observable pattern, unlike React's clunky setState syntax. Now, somehow magic symbols in the code is supposed to be an improvement? It doesn't seem that different from React's magic hooks these days. Is there some mysterious force of nature that binds front-end frameworks to bad decision making?
- lowboy 2y ago
  I haven’t had the chance to use Svelte in even a semi-serious project. From what I’ve tracked, Runes allow for better handling state complexity and allowing finer grained explicit control of reactivity. Maybe you don’t need that. Seems like a bunch of the Svelte community did. I wouldn’t frame that as a bad decision.
- kirso 2y ago
  There is probably a reason they did with a ground-up rebuild and partially this is because svelte 4 didn't enable universal reactivity and $ was more confusing than useful. Furthermore <slot /> had limitations in terms of children which made it difficult to build UI libraries. Svelte 5 now is actually simpler to learn for new comers despite higher verbosity. I love it!

klysm 2y ago

I found svelte more complicated than react to make work in practice