6 ms·

This is the first time I ever thought we need an open source monitor hardware

by yu3zhou4 2y ago

beretguy 2y ago
I feel like we need open source hardware cellphones too, and everything else.
- yu3zhou4 2y ago
  Fair point
- moepstar 2y ago
  Need? Absolutely. How good will it be? Hopefully better than the OpenMoko Freerunner I once had - good idea, worst execution ever. Wouldn’t even work half decently as a phone, not to mention any other aspects of it…
- pabs3 2y ago
  How do you feel about the PinePhone? There even the LTE modem runs FOSS Linux (on one of the two processors in the modem). https://github.com/the-modem-distro https://github.com/the-modem-distro
  - beretguy 2y ago
    I have PinePhone. It's not really usable. Battery life is atrocious. Just overall meh. I wish I could use it.
exe34 2y ago
I have started preparing myself mentally for a future where I give up on most of modern technology in the home and just go back to paper books/vinyls/etc.
- yu3zhou4 2y ago
  I guess it could become so difficult that it could be easier to RE the hardware and remove all the spying stuff
- amatecha 2y ago
  Same. My newest computer is from 2015... That said, at least one vendor is making computers I'm willing to purchase: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
  - pipe01 2y ago
    What about Framework?
    - amatecha 2y ago
      Ehh, Framework isn't open-source hardware and its repairability is reliant on a single vendor. A nice step in the right direction, but MNT is the only company making computers that meet the bar for true "anyone can make their own" open source hardware (and certified[0] by the Open Source Hardware Association). This means MNT could go under, and anyone can still make/repair the entire machine. Not the case for Framework. If they close up shop, their hardware just lost its repairability. Their tagline "you can use them for as long as you'd like" has a big caveat - "as long as Framework parts are being manufactured". MNT doesn't have this limitation. The actual schematics are open source. Heck, even if individual components in the BOM stop shipping, compatible hardware can be made by the community because the entire computer is "known" and not encumbered by NDAs and whatnot. New PCB revisions can be made by whomever has the skill to do so. Too cool :D [0] https://certification.oshwa.org/de000017.html https://certification.oshwa.org/de000017.html
      - exe34 2y ago
        that's amazing, I'll look them up! I hadn't realised they were that open, I assumed everybody was repairable like framework (i.e. pray they don't go under).
        amatecha 2y ago
        I know, right? The prior fully-OSHW computer I knew of was Novena but that was quite a while ago https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena Great quote from Bunnie still true today: "if you can't hack it, you don't own it" :)
krenzo 2y ago
Unfortunately, DisplayPort and HDMI specifications are kept private unless you're a paying member. I've successfully implemented DisplayPort 1.2 in an FPGA from specification documents I found, but I could never find the specification for anything better.
- kebokyo 2y ago
  Do you have anything online documenting how you did this? That’s actually really cool
- mafuy 2y ago
  I thought only HDMI is problematic, and DP is quite open?
  - somat 2y ago
    My understanding is that display-port is quite open in that there is no per-device fee for implementing it, I suspect you still have to be a vesa "member" to get a legit copy of the spec. Honestly at this point I consider VESA one of the good guys. At least compared to the alternative, spits, HDMI
pabs3 2y ago
I thought that when I found out about MonitorDarkly, a remote code execution exploit for the Dell 2410U monitor firmware. https://github.com/RedBalloonShenanigans/MonitorDarkly https://github.com/RedBalloonShenanigans/MonitorDarkly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32634467#32635631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32634467#32635631 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4_POi9rsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4_POi9rsg https://web.archive.org/web/20160809063532/https://www.redballoonsecurity.com/presentation/DEFCON24_A_Monitor_Darkly.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20160809063532/https://www.redba... https://web.archive.org/web/20160809062931/https://www.redballoonsecurity.com/presentation/Recon_0xA_A_Monitor_Darkly.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20160809062931/https://www.redba...
account42 2y ago
The multi-second startup times that many modern monitors have wasn't enough?

This is the first time I ever thought we need an open source monitor hardware

beretguy 2y ago

I feel like we need open source hardware cellphones too, and everything else.

yu3zhou4 2y ago
Fair point
moepstar 2y ago
Need? Absolutely. How good will it be? Hopefully better than the OpenMoko Freerunner I once had - good idea, worst execution ever. Wouldn’t even work half decently as a phone, not to mention any other aspects of it…
pabs3 2y ago
How do you feel about the PinePhone? There even the LTE modem runs FOSS Linux (on one of the two processors in the modem). https://github.com/the-modem-distro https://github.com/the-modem-distro
- beretguy 2y ago
  I have PinePhone. It's not really usable. Battery life is atrocious. Just overall meh. I wish I could use it.

exe34 2y ago

I have started preparing myself mentally for a future where I give up on most of modern technology in the home and just go back to paper books/vinyls/etc.

yu3zhou4 2y ago
I guess it could become so difficult that it could be easier to RE the hardware and remove all the spying stuff
amatecha 2y ago
Same. My newest computer is from 2015... That said, at least one vendor is making computers I'm willing to purchase: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
- pipe01 2y ago
  What about Framework?
  - amatecha 2y ago
    Ehh, Framework isn't open-source hardware and its repairability is reliant on a single vendor. A nice step in the right direction, but MNT is the only company making computers that meet the bar for true "anyone can make their own" open source hardware (and certified[0] by the Open Source Hardware Association). This means MNT could go under, and anyone can still make/repair the entire machine. Not the case for Framework. If they close up shop, their hardware just lost its repairability. Their tagline "you can use them for as long as you'd like" has a big caveat - "as long as Framework parts are being manufactured". MNT doesn't have this limitation. The actual schematics are open source. Heck, even if individual components in the BOM stop shipping, compatible hardware can be made by the community because the entire computer is "known" and not encumbered by NDAs and whatnot. New PCB revisions can be made by whomever has the skill to do so. Too cool :D [0] https://certification.oshwa.org/de000017.html https://certification.oshwa.org/de000017.html
    - exe34 2y ago
      that's amazing, I'll look them up! I hadn't realised they were that open, I assumed everybody was repairable like framework (i.e. pray they don't go under).
      - amatecha 2y ago
        I know, right? The prior fully-OSHW computer I knew of was Novena but that was quite a while ago https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena Great quote from Bunnie still true today: "if you can't hack it, you don't own it" :)

krenzo 2y ago

Unfortunately, DisplayPort and HDMI specifications are kept private unless you're a paying member. I've successfully implemented DisplayPort 1.2 in an FPGA from specification documents I found, but I could never find the specification for anything better.

kebokyo 2y ago
Do you have anything online documenting how you did this? That’s actually really cool
mafuy 2y ago
I thought only HDMI is problematic, and DP is quite open?
- somat 2y ago
  My understanding is that display-port is quite open in that there is no per-device fee for implementing it, I suspect you still have to be a vesa "member" to get a legit copy of the spec. Honestly at this point I consider VESA one of the good guys. At least compared to the alternative, spits, HDMI

pabs3 2y ago

I thought that when I found out about MonitorDarkly, a remote code execution exploit for the Dell 2410U monitor firmware. https://github.com/RedBalloonShenanigans/MonitorDarkly https://github.com/RedBalloonShenanigans/MonitorDarkly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32634467#32635631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32634467#32635631 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4_POi9rsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4_POi9rsg https://web.archive.org/web/20160809063532/https://www.redballoonsecurity.com/presentation/DEFCON24_A_Monitor_Darkly.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20160809063532/https://www.redba... https://web.archive.org/web/20160809062931/https://www.redballoonsecurity.com/presentation/Recon_0xA_A_Monitor_Darkly.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20160809062931/https://www.redba...

account42 2y ago

The multi-second startup times that many modern monitors have wasn't enough?