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Actually, studies (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821930017X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821...) hav

by relyks 2y ago

Actually, studies (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821930017X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821...) have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes. I have an e-bike and it’s enabled me to cycle on steep inclined and hilly roads that I would be unable to do otherwise. Having an e-bike encourages you to cycle a lot more than you typically would imo. I use it as my primary form of transportation. I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.

Macha 2y ago
I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.
- justmarc 2y ago
  These things can cost like decent used cars. We're living in a crazy world.
  - relyks 2y ago
    Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)
bossyTeacher 2y ago
> I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve. Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
- seadan83 2y ago
  > Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Any data available for how often that happens? I have never heard of a single instance, nor it even being a risk even. > Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Indeed the 'stranded with a heavy bike' was a problem. Less so now that e-bike ranges are 60+ miles. > Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs I don't think this makes sense. Have you heard of this as common? Do you know any manufacturers who recommend this? The shelf life of batteries is years and years. A replacement would be idle.. > Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies. Bikes are relatively simple. Happily the wiring can be redone if need-be to retrofit to something new
- dylan604 2y ago
  > having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. As an example, a replacement battery pack for the e-bike model I bought is 25% of the price of the bike. I'd assume the motor and other electronics would ring up to another 25%. Since I bought a cargo e-bike, there's really no meat motor bike to compare the remaining price to see how it aligns.
- relyks 2y ago
  I was actually referring to regular bikes not e-bikes in my last point, your quote, but I agree with everything you said. There are definitely disadvantages to e-bikes
newaccount74 2y ago
> studies have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes. I read the abstract of the study you linked, and it does not say that people who use e-bikes are more fit than people who use regular bikes. It says that e-biker have slightly less "metabolic equivalent task" minutes per week compared to cyclists.
seadan83 2y ago
The quoted study does not mention fitness. It does find (1) physical activity level increases of e-bike vs bike riders is similar. (2) e-bike riders ride farther than conventional bike riders. From the linked study: > E-bikers take longer trips by e-bike and bicycle, compared to cyclists. > Physical activity gains from active travel are similar in e-bikers and cyclists. The second point is non-obvious IMO and interesting. The first point makes sense though IMO. AFAIK the majority of pedal bike trips are short ranges. A subset of bike riders travel larger distances. This averages out to be relatively short distances. An e-bike I believe is not attractive for a short distance (why pay the cost when a cheaper pedal bike that you will ride for 10 minutes would do just as well and for a fraction of cost?). I think it makes sense that e-bikes then push that distance-travel average up over conventional bikes.
analog31 2y ago
Sure, there's "studies" but there's also physics. My main use of a bike is X miles per day to work and back. Shopping trips and some weekend activities add miles, but the baseline is commuting. I'm not particularly athletic. I have some friends who commute on e-bikes, and I'm fully supportive. It's all good. Switching to an e-bike won't add hours or miles to my baseline. I mention this anecdote only to illustrate that the effect of an e-bike depends heavily on circumstances. I think a better generalization might be that an e-bike combined with a lifestyle change can result in better fitness. This is where I see the great benefit of e-bikes, and why I encourage my friends to get them. Just spitballing a number, if the bike supplies 50% of the effort, then a lifestyle change could consist of increasing your use of a bike by 2x or more. This is not implausible because a lot of people get virtually no exercise at all. Oddly enough the most frequent question I get about cycling is: "When are you going to get an e-bike?" I think there will always be a few remaining uses for a bike that is cheap, maintainable by the owner, light enough to carry up a stairs or throw into a car, can be stored anywhere, indefinitely, and used on demand, doesn't catch fire, and is powered by the lipids stored in your body. ;-)
gitaarik 2y ago
Hehe I guess it greatly depends on the kind of group of people you test it on. There are a lot of people that buy these comfortable e-bikes with fat wheels and big seats, not because they're sporty, but because they're lazy and want comfort. And often you can also see it from their weight.
tim333 2y ago
I did a study, informal, involving sitting at a cafe watching the bikes go by for 30 mins and the ebike riders were definitely in worse shape than the regular bike riders. That said I ride an ebike - nothing's perfect.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by relyks 2y ago

Macha 2y ago

I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.

justmarc 2y ago
These things can cost like decent used cars. We're living in a crazy world.
- relyks 2y ago
  Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)

bossyTeacher 2y ago

> I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve. Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.

seadan83 2y ago
> Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Any data available for how often that happens? I have never heard of a single instance, nor it even being a risk even. > Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Indeed the 'stranded with a heavy bike' was a problem. Less so now that e-bike ranges are 60+ miles. > Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs I don't think this makes sense. Have you heard of this as common? Do you know any manufacturers who recommend this? The shelf life of batteries is years and years. A replacement would be idle.. > Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies. Bikes are relatively simple. Happily the wiring can be redone if need-be to retrofit to something new
dylan604 2y ago
> having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. As an example, a replacement battery pack for the e-bike model I bought is 25% of the price of the bike. I'd assume the motor and other electronics would ring up to another 25%. Since I bought a cargo e-bike, there's really no meat motor bike to compare the remaining price to see how it aligns.
relyks 2y ago
I was actually referring to regular bikes not e-bikes in my last point, your quote, but I agree with everything you said. There are definitely disadvantages to e-bikes

newaccount74 2y ago

> studies have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes. I read the abstract of the study you linked, and it does not say that people who use e-bikes are more fit than people who use regular bikes. It says that e-biker have slightly less "metabolic equivalent task" minutes per week compared to cyclists.

seadan83 2y ago

The quoted study does not mention fitness. It does find (1) physical activity level increases of e-bike vs bike riders is similar. (2) e-bike riders ride farther than conventional bike riders. From the linked study: > E-bikers take longer trips by e-bike and bicycle, compared to cyclists. > Physical activity gains from active travel are similar in e-bikers and cyclists. The second point is non-obvious IMO and interesting. The first point makes sense though IMO. AFAIK the majority of pedal bike trips are short ranges. A subset of bike riders travel larger distances. This averages out to be relatively short distances. An e-bike I believe is not attractive for a short distance (why pay the cost when a cheaper pedal bike that you will ride for 10 minutes would do just as well and for a fraction of cost?). I think it makes sense that e-bikes then push that distance-travel average up over conventional bikes.

analog31 2y ago

Sure, there's "studies" but there's also physics. My main use of a bike is X miles per day to work and back. Shopping trips and some weekend activities add miles, but the baseline is commuting. I'm not particularly athletic. I have some friends who commute on e-bikes, and I'm fully supportive. It's all good. Switching to an e-bike won't add hours or miles to my baseline. I mention this anecdote only to illustrate that the effect of an e-bike depends heavily on circumstances. I think a better generalization might be that an e-bike combined with a lifestyle change can result in better fitness. This is where I see the great benefit of e-bikes, and why I encourage my friends to get them. Just spitballing a number, if the bike supplies 50% of the effort, then a lifestyle change could consist of increasing your use of a bike by 2x or more. This is not implausible because a lot of people get virtually no exercise at all. Oddly enough the most frequent question I get about cycling is: "When are you going to get an e-bike?" I think there will always be a few remaining uses for a bike that is cheap, maintainable by the owner, light enough to carry up a stairs or throw into a car, can be stored anywhere, indefinitely, and used on demand, doesn't catch fire, and is powered by the lipids stored in your body. ;-)

gitaarik 2y ago

Hehe I guess it greatly depends on the kind of group of people you test it on. There are a lot of people that buy these comfortable e-bikes with fat wheels and big seats, not because they're sporty, but because they're lazy and want comfort. And often you can also see it from their weight.

tim333 2y ago

I did a study, informal, involving sitting at a cafe watching the bikes go by for 30 mins and the ebike riders were definitely in worse shape than the regular bike riders. That said I ride an ebike - nothing's perfect.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]