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The e-bike trend will only accelerate getting out of shape while people like this one will stay in good shape much longer. While having a few advantages, it's

The e-bike trend will only accelerate getting out of shape while people like this one will stay in good shape much longer. While having a few advantages, it's not universally great.

bluGill 2y ago
Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness.
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  > Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness Just because an ebike can go further does not mean they are mostly used in that way. The proper thing to say is that bikes enable unfit people to go further than they could with a normal bike. Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
  - seadan83 2y ago
    > Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike? What types of distances are you thinking of? 'Most fit people's feel is a bit ambiguous since we are likely speaking about less than one third of the population (at least in the US). Cross town trips seem to be a place where e-bikes shine IMO. At least gauging by the anecdata that e-bike commuters in the last 15 years have gone from rare to occasionally to the majority of bicycle commuters (at least on many days, and along my commute route, that is not the best connected and is at least 6 miles one way)
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  What's "too far" on a bike? Covering distance on a bike is almost zero work. It's work if you need to go up.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    30 minutes. Time is the correct measure of distance in most cases, not something like km or mile. If it takes too long to get there I'll go by some other mode. sure fanatics will bike 100 mile, or some such, but the rest of us have lives to live and we don't have time to waste getting places. The destination is the point. That an ebike get us there in reasonable time is important, exercise is a nice side benefit.
- seadan83 2y ago
  I fully agree in many situations that is the case. Oddly enough, there is a curve where when ranges get far enough, pedal bike is what you want again. Eg: 35+ miles one way (ie: past the 90% range of an e-bike). That number will keep going up though as batteries get better and lighter. For most people, that tidbit is irrelevant, but IMO an interesting niche datum from bike culture.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    I disagree. as I said in another comment the correct measure of distance is time and old ebikes generally run out of time budget before battery. If you are doing a long trip you are right but most people will find some other way to do those trips even if they had infinite battery.
    - seadan83 2y ago
      What exactly are you disagreeing with? I'm postulating essentially infinite time (no upper bound on either time or distance) and finite battery. Which is more real world compared to infinite battery and is why I said when distances get long enough. If you want to flip the criteria to make your disagreement, sure.. My point is that there is actually no upper bound to distance (which implies more time than normal), and at a certain threshold the e-bike is no longer what you want because the battery runs out. If you want to say there is a hard upper bound for either time or distance, sure - but there isn't such an upper bound. In practice, those that would go more than 70 miles round trip on a bike is a very limited number of people to begin with. Even given infinite battery and/or infinite time, it's just not a lot of people. Hence why I think the 'more than battery distance' aspect is not well appreciated. A car centric culture would just not even consider such distances as an option at all. Hence the perspective IMHO that going for more than 90 minutes is just a non option for everyone, even though it is. My experience riding with e-bikes is how and why I come to say this. They simply can't do a century plus ride. For extreme distance rides (inter-state) - even more so. At those points, non motor is better. I've met just one person doing a tour on an e-bike (that is way less than 1% observed). While that is anecdata, it greatly contrasts with the ballpark 40% to 80% cyclists I observe commuting via e-bike vs non assist pedal bike.
bityard 2y ago
Is exercise the only reason to ride a bike?
- relyks 2y ago
  No, for enjoyment, parking convenience, traffic avoidance, cost, and to be environment friendly :) Cycling is actually the fastest way to get around NYC and London most of the time if you’re able to keep a consistently high speed
hifromwork 2y ago
(As someone who rides a regular, non-electric bike daily, and has no desire to switch to an electric one) on the other hand, electric bike is strictly better than driving a car, or just staying at home. Perfect is still the enemy of good.
CalRobert 2y ago
Maybe, but they also are practical car replacements where acoustic bikes aren’t. Nevermind carrying 100kg of kids and stuff in an urban arrow
- ahoka 2y ago
  Now you tell me there are bikes driven by sound?!
xandrius 2y ago
You are confusing the people who you think use ebikes vs the ones who are actually using it. I'm not sure about the future but ebike riders are generally people who would never bike to begin with or who couldn't do the trip ahead of them with a normal bike. And if a previous bike user switches to ebikes, generally they would have been considering another alternative instead (e.g. Motorbike, car, public transport, etc.)
- Scarblac 2y ago
  In the Netherlands it's often kids riding to high school now, who certainly would have used normal bikes in the past. And once they start with ebikes, I don't expect them to ever switch to mormal bikes anymore.
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  After spending last week at a house right off the boardwalk in Newport Beach I’d have to disagree here. I probably saw well over a hundred e-bikes zoom by during my stay and would say that most were either teenagers/young adults or people in their 30s to 50s that seemed perfectly capable of riding a standard bike.
relyks 2y ago
Actually, studies (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821930017X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821...) have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes. I have an e-bike and it’s enabled me to cycle on steep inclined and hilly roads that I would be unable to do otherwise. Having an e-bike encourages you to cycle a lot more than you typically would imo. I use it as my primary form of transportation. I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.
- Macha 2y ago
  I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.
  - justmarc 2y ago
    These things can cost like decent used cars. We're living in a crazy world.
    - relyks 2y ago
      Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  > I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve. Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
1over137 2y ago
If the "e-bike trend" accelerating involves people switching from cars to e-bikes, then I imagine they'll be in better shape, not worse.
h1fra 2y ago
I don't think I have ever met a single person riding a bike that was "out of shape", maybe it's purely anecdotical but I feel like if you ride a bike regularly you are already in a "good shape" and e-bike will not change that. From what I see in Paris, people are just using them more or for longer trips which is probably net-positive in the end, both for them and the planet
- Scarblac 2y ago
  I'm utterly out of shape but use the bicycle for trips within my city (that I can't walk). It's just that that's only a few times per week and it's hardly strenuous, so it's not nearly enough exercise on its own.
dahart 2y ago
What makes you think e-bikes would cause anyone to get out of shape? I don’t have one yet, but I’ve seen a dramatic increase of older people cycling up canyon roads on pedal assist e-bikes. They can do rides with e-bikes that they otherwise couldn’t, and they can go further and/or longer. I’m certain I’ll replace my all-mechanical cycle with an e-bike at some point, and I think it will help me stay in shape and continue to enjoy long-distance cycling as I age. In town, people are replacing car trips to the store and the pub with e-bike rides. That’s both more active, and better for the environment, than car or motorcycle trips, no? Not only that, as a cyclist, it’s been helpful to have more and more riders representing the need for bike lanes, bike safety, and bike awareness. I don’t see any major downsides to the e-bike trend, and there are a lot of upsides. It seems universally great to me.
baxuz 2y ago
Hard disagree. I own an ebike, which I drive in "eco" mode most of the time. After 25kph there's a hard cutoff, meaning I only drive a very heavy bike. I also live on top of a hill, and an ebike has greatly increased my will to commute, especially when cycling home after gym. The problem is regulation. Any bike that has a throttle, or isn't capped to 25kph should be illegal to drive without registering it as a motor vehicle. Yet I've never seen anyone actually enforce this.

The e-bike trend will only accelerate getting out of shape while people like this one will stay in good shape much longer. While having a few advantages, it's not universally great.

bluGill 2y ago

Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness.

bossyTeacher 2y ago
> Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness Just because an ebike can go further does not mean they are mostly used in that way. The proper thing to say is that bikes enable unfit people to go further than they could with a normal bike. Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
- seadan83 2y ago
  > Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike? What types of distances are you thinking of? 'Most fit people's feel is a bit ambiguous since we are likely speaking about less than one third of the population (at least in the US). Cross town trips seem to be a place where e-bikes shine IMO. At least gauging by the anecdata that e-bike commuters in the last 15 years have gone from rare to occasionally to the majority of bicycle commuters (at least on many days, and along my commute route, that is not the best connected and is at least 6 miles one way)
thaumasiotes 2y ago
What's "too far" on a bike? Covering distance on a bike is almost zero work. It's work if you need to go up.
- bluGill 2y ago
  30 minutes. Time is the correct measure of distance in most cases, not something like km or mile. If it takes too long to get there I'll go by some other mode. sure fanatics will bike 100 mile, or some such, but the rest of us have lives to live and we don't have time to waste getting places. The destination is the point. That an ebike get us there in reasonable time is important, exercise is a nice side benefit.
seadan83 2y ago
I fully agree in many situations that is the case. Oddly enough, there is a curve where when ranges get far enough, pedal bike is what you want again. Eg: 35+ miles one way (ie: past the 90% range of an e-bike). That number will keep going up though as batteries get better and lighter. For most people, that tidbit is irrelevant, but IMO an interesting niche datum from bike culture.
- bluGill 2y ago
  I disagree. as I said in another comment the correct measure of distance is time and old ebikes generally run out of time budget before battery. If you are doing a long trip you are right but most people will find some other way to do those trips even if they had infinite battery.
  - seadan83 2y ago
    What exactly are you disagreeing with? I'm postulating essentially infinite time (no upper bound on either time or distance) and finite battery. Which is more real world compared to infinite battery and is why I said when distances get long enough. If you want to flip the criteria to make your disagreement, sure.. My point is that there is actually no upper bound to distance (which implies more time than normal), and at a certain threshold the e-bike is no longer what you want because the battery runs out. If you want to say there is a hard upper bound for either time or distance, sure - but there isn't such an upper bound. In practice, those that would go more than 70 miles round trip on a bike is a very limited number of people to begin with. Even given infinite battery and/or infinite time, it's just not a lot of people. Hence why I think the 'more than battery distance' aspect is not well appreciated. A car centric culture would just not even consider such distances as an option at all. Hence the perspective IMHO that going for more than 90 minutes is just a non option for everyone, even though it is. My experience riding with e-bikes is how and why I come to say this. They simply can't do a century plus ride. For extreme distance rides (inter-state) - even more so. At those points, non motor is better. I've met just one person doing a tour on an e-bike (that is way less than 1% observed). While that is anecdata, it greatly contrasts with the ballpark 40% to 80% cyclists I observe commuting via e-bike vs non assist pedal bike.

bityard 2y ago

Is exercise the only reason to ride a bike?

relyks 2y ago
No, for enjoyment, parking convenience, traffic avoidance, cost, and to be environment friendly :) Cycling is actually the fastest way to get around NYC and London most of the time if you’re able to keep a consistently high speed

hifromwork 2y ago

(As someone who rides a regular, non-electric bike daily, and has no desire to switch to an electric one) on the other hand, electric bike is strictly better than driving a car, or just staying at home. Perfect is still the enemy of good.

CalRobert 2y ago

Maybe, but they also are practical car replacements where acoustic bikes aren’t. Nevermind carrying 100kg of kids and stuff in an urban arrow

ahoka 2y ago
Now you tell me there are bikes driven by sound?!

xandrius 2y ago

You are confusing the people who you think use ebikes vs the ones who are actually using it. I'm not sure about the future but ebike riders are generally people who would never bike to begin with or who couldn't do the trip ahead of them with a normal bike. And if a previous bike user switches to ebikes, generally they would have been considering another alternative instead (e.g. Motorbike, car, public transport, etc.)

Scarblac 2y ago
In the Netherlands it's often kids riding to high school now, who certainly would have used normal bikes in the past. And once they start with ebikes, I don't expect them to ever switch to mormal bikes anymore.
lotsoweiners 2y ago
After spending last week at a house right off the boardwalk in Newport Beach I’d have to disagree here. I probably saw well over a hundred e-bikes zoom by during my stay and would say that most were either teenagers/young adults or people in their 30s to 50s that seemed perfectly capable of riding a standard bike.

relyks 2y ago

Actually, studies (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821930017X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821...) have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes. I have an e-bike and it’s enabled me to cycle on steep inclined and hilly roads that I would be unable to do otherwise. Having an e-bike encourages you to cycle a lot more than you typically would imo. I use it as my primary form of transportation. I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.

Macha 2y ago
I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.
- justmarc 2y ago
  These things can cost like decent used cars. We're living in a crazy world.
  - relyks 2y ago
    Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)
bossyTeacher 2y ago
> I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve. Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.

1over137 2y ago

If the "e-bike trend" accelerating involves people switching from cars to e-bikes, then I imagine they'll be in better shape, not worse.

h1fra 2y ago

I don't think I have ever met a single person riding a bike that was "out of shape", maybe it's purely anecdotical but I feel like if you ride a bike regularly you are already in a "good shape" and e-bike will not change that. From what I see in Paris, people are just using them more or for longer trips which is probably net-positive in the end, both for them and the planet

Scarblac 2y ago
I'm utterly out of shape but use the bicycle for trips within my city (that I can't walk). It's just that that's only a few times per week and it's hardly strenuous, so it's not nearly enough exercise on its own.

dahart 2y ago

What makes you think e-bikes would cause anyone to get out of shape? I don’t have one yet, but I’ve seen a dramatic increase of older people cycling up canyon roads on pedal assist e-bikes. They can do rides with e-bikes that they otherwise couldn’t, and they can go further and/or longer. I’m certain I’ll replace my all-mechanical cycle with an e-bike at some point, and I think it will help me stay in shape and continue to enjoy long-distance cycling as I age. In town, people are replacing car trips to the store and the pub with e-bike rides. That’s both more active, and better for the environment, than car or motorcycle trips, no? Not only that, as a cyclist, it’s been helpful to have more and more riders representing the need for bike lanes, bike safety, and bike awareness. I don’t see any major downsides to the e-bike trend, and there are a lot of upsides. It seems universally great to me.

baxuz 2y ago

Hard disagree. I own an ebike, which I drive in "eco" mode most of the time. After 25kph there's a hard cutoff, meaning I only drive a very heavy bike. I also live on top of a hill, and an ebike has greatly increased my will to commute, especially when cycling home after gym. The problem is regulation. Any bike that has a throttle, or isn't capped to 25kph should be illegal to drive without registering it as a motor vehicle. Yet I've never seen anyone actually enforce this.