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You may as well make policy on the basis that the British have global imperial ambitions, that the Germans are genocidal, that the Japanese are threatening to i
by mopsi 2y ago
You may as well make policy on the basis that the British have global imperial ambitions, that the Germans are genocidal, that the Japanese are threatening to invade the Philippines or that the US has a small government. You can't lumber people with the assumption that their government is going to behave the same as in the 1940s.
Going to? They never stopped. Russia is behaving as it has always behaved. When they invaded Ukraine in 2014, they set up fake People's Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk. These fake countries then asked Russia for help and the jolly Russian army immediately entered Ukraine to "protect" them. Later, Luhansk and Donetsk held fake referendums and asked Russia to annex them. Russia gladly accepted the request and they became a part of Russian Federation.
This is exactly the same blueprint as was used in 1940 to occupy Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Russians even tried the same with Finland and established Finnish Democratic Republic, which had to be scrapped after Finns put up a stiff resistance and Russians lost the Winter War. And they continued with this after the WWII to set up communist dictatorships all across Europe, same blueprint over and over again. Local population "invites" and Russians flood in with tanks and guns to "help".
If you know history, then this is like watching a re-run.
Can you articulate my theories? Because you seem to be in furious agreement on this point, you just haven't managed to take the next logical step and append some serious reflection and a "Did the policies we adopted make the situation better or worse? And who for?" on the end. Because we seem to have adopted a position that has left almost literally everyone involved and most of the bystanders in a worse position than if NATO hadn't been posturing against the Russians for the last 30 years. Driven, I suspect, by the same inane tiger-with-unchanging-stripes logic that you are suggesting.
Your theories have nothing to do with facts on the ground. You say that NATO has been posturing against Russia. Nothing could be further from the truth.
MILITARY SPENDING of Europe had continued to steadily decrease since the end of the Cold War. In 2006, the total spending was 190 billion. By 2014, it was down to 162 billion. As a percentage of GDP, Cold War era spending was 3-5%, now it's 1-2%.
EUROPEAN MILITARY CAPABILITIES have been in steep decline too. In 1990, German Army had 308 000 personnel, 5045 tanks, 2136 IFVs. To cut costs, Germany disbanded most of its army and sold off its equipment all over the world, as far as Chile. By 2015, only 61 312 personnel, 225 tanks and 406 remained. The same trends were mirrored in other countries.
AMERICAN MILITARY PRESENCE in Europe was also in decline. In 1987, the US had 80 military bases in Europe. 30 years later, less than half remained. Furthermore, these bases are a shadow of their former self: the number of US military personnel deployed to Europe is at the lowest since the WWII, down from 320 000 during the 1980s to around 60 000 nowadays, mostly manning facilities like the massive military hospital at Ramstein airbase. In 1989, US Army had 5000 tanks in Germany alone. In 2013, the last twenty American tanks departed Europe.
NEW DEPLOYMENTS TO EUROPE were ridiculously small, mainly light infantry for host nation training purposes: as of 2017, a single non-permanent battalion with 800 personnel and 4 jets in Estonia, a 1200-strong battalion in Latvia and another in Lithuania with 4 jets, and 4000-strong armored battalion in Poland. Plus 4 jets in Romania for three months in the summer. Is this the infamous "encirclement"?
CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS is an adequate comparison only insofar as it applies to Russian behavior.
Russia and NATO agreed in the founding act of 1997 that NATO would not station any missiles in Eastern Europe. NATO has upheld that commitment for a quarter of a century. NATO nuclear missiles remain where they were 50 years ago, whereas Russia has recently moved theirs westward into Belarus, an unstable dictatorship held up only by Russian secret services.
If you insist on making comparisons with Cuba, then the closest thing Europe offers is Russian enclave of Kaliningrad in the middle of Europe, with short-range Russian nuclear missiles pointed at Europe: https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2016/11/russianmissiles-1122-3.jpg https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2016/1...
PRIOR TO THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRAINE, Europe was unilaterally disarming itself to the extent that Germany didn't even have enough equipment for joint exercises with other countries. Germans were mocked for using painted broomsticks for cannons on their vehicles, and French president talked that NATO was obsolete and "braindead". Central and Eastern Europe had been accepted into NATO, but their fears were not taken seriously and often even ridiculed, and nothing was done to bolster their security like had been done in West Germany during the Cold War.
Russia has gone as far as flying drones in NATO airspace, including over cities, armed with warheads. In a recent incident, Romanian F-16s tracked such drone for half an hour without shooting it down because obsolete rules of engagement disallow that. NATO has been unable to reach a consensus whether armed drones from a openly hostile country should be shot down in NATO airspace before they hit any city and kill people there.
Where is this posturing that you talk about? It is easy to throw such phrases around, but I fail to see any substance behind them.
- roenxi 2y ago> Going to? They never stopped. Russia is behaving as it has always behaved. They did stop. There was that long period from 1990 to 2014 where they were withdrawing their military influence. The area controlled by Moscow's is going to have shrunk over my lifetime even at current rates of conquest. We could have kept that 25-year period going if the treatment of the Russian state had been a bit more welcoming instead of rapping them over the knuckles for being naive. > [various caps-locked sections] There are a lot of reasons why a war might not have happened, but given that a war has actually happened it only makes sense to look why it did. The NATO budget was allowed to shrink because the USSR budget imploded - NATO was still outspending Russia by more than 10:1. Frankly it has been pretty stunning how well the Russians have held up over the last 2 years to the point where I suspect the Chinese are more actively involved than it looks. Russia isn't complaining about what is happening in Germany, France and the UK. They're complaining about what is happening in the likes of Ukraine and Georgia. And I doubt they are as much worried by US troop deployments as they are by exactly the situation that has played out in Ukraine. Slav troops, NATO weapons and EU logistical support. > a single non-permanent battalion with 800 personnel and 4 jets in Estonia, a 1200-strong battalion in Latvia and another in Lithuania with 4 jets, and 4000-strong armored battalion in Poland. Plus 4 jets in Romania for three months in the summer. Is this the infamous "encirclement"? Yes. If not for encircling Russia, what use is Estonia to the US? Why else put military resources there? It is part of a broad-based strategy of lots of Russians dying if the situation gets hot. I don't think anyone would really disagree with that assessment, but the Russians are quite vocal that they'd rather it wasn't so. > NATO nuclear missiles remain where they were 50 years ago The specific deployment of those missiles isn't really the point; the point is that the US would never tolerate a whisper of something like NATO but directed against the US on the American continent. Russia not tolerating NATO on their borders is a pretty reasonable attitude compared to what the mirror-image US response would be. But, that said, NATO leadership are liars. They said they weren't going to expand NATO, then they did. If they say they aren't going to station missiles in their new military allies you'd be a bit gullible to believe that. It is believable if they say missiles won't be stationed until they are sure Russia can't do anything about it. > Where is this posturing that you talk about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO - or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_NATO_enlargement_animation.gif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_NATO_enlargeme... if you like visuals.