4 ms·

You’re wrong. Nothing about this is clear, and you’d be silly to claim otherwise. You should explore your bias and where it’s coming from.

by valval 2y ago

UltraSane 2y ago
No Tesla vehicle has legally driven even a single mile with no driver in the driver's seat. They aren't even trying to play Waymo's game. The latest FSD software's failure rate is at least 100 times higher than it needs to be.
- fallingknife 2y ago
  That's a stupid point. I've been in a Tesla that's driven a mile by itself. It makes no difference if a person is in the seat.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    "It makes no difference if a person is in the seat." It does when Musk is claiming that Tesla is going to sell a car with no steering wheel! The current Tesla FSD fails so often that a human HAS to be in the driver seat ready to take over at any moment. You really don't understand the enormous difference between the current crappy level 2 Tesla FSD and Waymo's level 4 system?
    - valval 2y ago
      The difference is that Tesla has a general algorithm, while Waymo is hard coding scenarios. I never really got why people bring Waymo up every time Tesla’s FSD is mentioned. Waymo isn’t competing with Tesla’s vision.
      - porphyra 2y ago
        Waymo uses a learned planner and is far from "hardcoded". In any case, imo both of these can be true: * Tesla FSD works surprisingly well and improving capabilities to hands free actual autonomy isn't as far fetched as one might think. * Waymo beat them to robotaxi deployment and scaling up to multiple cities may not be as hard as people say. It seems that self driving car fans are way too tribal and seem to be convinced that the "other side" sucks and is guaranteed to fail. In reality, it is very unclear as both strategies have their merits and only time will tell in the long run.
        UltraSane 2y ago
        " Tesla FSD works surprisingly well and improving capabilities to hands free actual autonomy isn't as far fetched as one might think" Except FSD doesn't work surprisingly well and there is no way it will get as good as Waymo using vision-only. "It seems that self driving car fans are way too tribal and seem to be convinced that the "other side" sucks and is guaranteed to fail." I'm not being tribal, I'm being realistic based on the very public performance of both systems. If Musk was serious about his Robotaxi claims then Tesla would be operating very differently. Instead it is pretty obvious it all a con to inflate Tesla shares beyond all reason.
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        The difference is that Waymo has a very well engineered system using vision, LIDAR, and millimeter wave RADAR that works well enough in limited areas to provide tens of thousands of actual driver-less rides. Tesla has a vision only system that sucks so bad a human has to be ready to take over for it at any time like a parent monitoring a toddler near stairs.
        valval 2y ago
        Wait until you hear Waymo has people ready to step in with remote controls at all times.
        UltraSane 2y ago
        NO. Waymo cars are never remote-controlled. Remote controlling cars in traffic is too dangerous do to latency severely limited. What Waymo does is have operators provide hints. At no time is the autonomous system ever disabled. Just another example of how much better engineered Waymo is than Tesla's FSD scam.
    - fallingknife 2y ago
      Who said anything about Waymo? Waymo is building a very high cost commercial grade system intended for use on revenue generating vehicles. Tesla is building a low cost system intended for personal vehicles where Waymo's system would be cost prohibitive. Obviously Waymo's system is massively more capable. But that is about as surprising as the fact that a Ferrari is faster than a Ford Ranger. But this is all irrelevant to my point. You said a Tesla is not capable of driving itself for a mile. I have personally seen one do it. Whether a person is sitting in the driver's seat, or the regulators will allow it, has nothing to do with the fact that the vehicle does, in fact, have that capability.
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        [dead]

You’re wrong. Nothing about this is clear, and you’d be silly to claim otherwise. You should explore your bias and where it’s coming from.

by valval 2y ago

You’re wrong. Nothing about this is clear, and you’d be silly to claim otherwise. You should explore your bias and where it’s coming from.

UltraSane 2y ago

No Tesla vehicle has legally driven even a single mile with no driver in the driver's seat. They aren't even trying to play Waymo's game. The latest FSD software's failure rate is at least 100 times higher than it needs to be.

fallingknife 2y ago
That's a stupid point. I've been in a Tesla that's driven a mile by itself. It makes no difference if a person is in the seat.
- UltraSane 2y ago
  "It makes no difference if a person is in the seat." It does when Musk is claiming that Tesla is going to sell a car with no steering wheel! The current Tesla FSD fails so often that a human HAS to be in the driver seat ready to take over at any moment. You really don't understand the enormous difference between the current crappy level 2 Tesla FSD and Waymo's level 4 system?
  - valval 2y ago
    The difference is that Tesla has a general algorithm, while Waymo is hard coding scenarios. I never really got why people bring Waymo up every time Tesla’s FSD is mentioned. Waymo isn’t competing with Tesla’s vision.
    - porphyra 2y ago
      Waymo uses a learned planner and is far from "hardcoded". In any case, imo both of these can be true: * Tesla FSD works surprisingly well and improving capabilities to hands free actual autonomy isn't as far fetched as one might think. * Waymo beat them to robotaxi deployment and scaling up to multiple cities may not be as hard as people say. It seems that self driving car fans are way too tribal and seem to be convinced that the "other side" sucks and is guaranteed to fail. In reality, it is very unclear as both strategies have their merits and only time will tell in the long run.
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        " Tesla FSD works surprisingly well and improving capabilities to hands free actual autonomy isn't as far fetched as one might think" Except FSD doesn't work surprisingly well and there is no way it will get as good as Waymo using vision-only. "It seems that self driving car fans are way too tribal and seem to be convinced that the "other side" sucks and is guaranteed to fail." I'm not being tribal, I'm being realistic based on the very public performance of both systems. If Musk was serious about his Robotaxi claims then Tesla would be operating very differently. Instead it is pretty obvious it all a con to inflate Tesla shares beyond all reason.
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      The difference is that Waymo has a very well engineered system using vision, LIDAR, and millimeter wave RADAR that works well enough in limited areas to provide tens of thousands of actual driver-less rides. Tesla has a vision only system that sucks so bad a human has to be ready to take over for it at any time like a parent monitoring a toddler near stairs.
      - valval 2y ago
        Wait until you hear Waymo has people ready to step in with remote controls at all times.
        UltraSane 2y ago
        NO. Waymo cars are never remote-controlled. Remote controlling cars in traffic is too dangerous do to latency severely limited. What Waymo does is have operators provide hints. At no time is the autonomous system ever disabled. Just another example of how much better engineered Waymo is than Tesla's FSD scam.
  - fallingknife 2y ago
    Who said anything about Waymo? Waymo is building a very high cost commercial grade system intended for use on revenue generating vehicles. Tesla is building a low cost system intended for personal vehicles where Waymo's system would be cost prohibitive. Obviously Waymo's system is massively more capable. But that is about as surprising as the fact that a Ferrari is faster than a Ford Ranger. But this is all irrelevant to my point. You said a Tesla is not capable of driving itself for a mile. I have personally seen one do it. Whether a person is sitting in the driver's seat, or the regulators will allow it, has nothing to do with the fact that the vehicle does, in fact, have that capability.
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      [dead]