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Drug companies have been unwilling to take financial risks when they can’t be sure there’ll be a market for a strep A vaccine in wealthy countries Did they not

Drug companies have been unwilling to take financial risks when they can’t be sure there’ll be a market for a strep A vaccine in wealthy countries Did they not poll anyone on this? I struggle greatly to believe the greater public wouldn’t sprint to their nearest pharmacy for such a vaccine. I wanted to fund it before the article was over - I simply never knew such a thing was on the table.

Molitor5901 2y ago
Vaccine makers could lobby the government to make the vaccine mandatory, thereby guaranteeing a revenue stream for the vaccine to reduce the financial risk.
- K0balt 2y ago
  [flagged]
- fshbbdssbbgdd 2y ago
  I wonder if people downvoted this because they took it as some kind of political point about COVID-19. Maybe it was, but I agree with it as a serious proposal. Even if the government is not confident in its ability to get people to accept vaccinations, it should commit to pay for the doses either way, to incentivize the development of the vaccine. In general, a contest or prize is a smart way to fund a public good. Among left and right economists, this is one thing most would agree on.
  - fooker 2y ago
    Okay suppose the government commits to pay for it and keeps coercing people to take it. What happens when: (1) TotallyGenuine drug company realizes that they can still get paid giving out fake shots. (2) NotEvil drug company buys up it's smaller competitors and stops improving vaccines. (3) KeyboardScientist makes a viral post that the government is sterilizing people of a particular ethnicity. With a bit of googling, you can find events very close to all these three.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      And yet we still have many successful mandatory vaccination campaigns. Certainly they've been hurt by all the antivax garbage going around since the pandemic, but that doesn't make them not worthwhile.
      - fooker 2y ago
        We have also had many successful wars. Doesn't mean wars are the best way to solve issues.
  - Molitor5901 2y ago
    I was actually thinking of Gardasil but yes, it could be applied to anything. It was not meant to be political.
pfdietz 2y ago
The concern with any Strep vaccine is stimulating autoimmune reactions. Rheumatic fever is just such a reaction associated with strep infection, and it can be very damaging, even deadly.
fny 2y ago
First, there are cheap alternatives (antibiotics) which limit the total market size. Second, it’s almost tautological. If there was enough profit to justify the development time and cost, drug companies would pursue a vaccine. Since they’re not pursuing a vaccine, you can assume there’s not enough estimated profit compared to other research ventures. The second point includes considerations of difficulty. There are many strep strains. Strep can trigger autoimmune diseases. Will the costs of surmounting these challenges be rewarded above other pursuits?
- log_e 2y ago
  You realize tautology is a logical fallacy, right?
  - pdonis 2y ago
    Huh? A tautology is a statement that is automatically true by the laws of logic.
    - maxbond 2y ago
      GP is correct that the argument contains an informal fallacy[1], and people often express this criticism by saying "your argument is tautological," and you are correct that a tautology is a statement which is always true [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)
      - pdonis 2y ago
        > GP is correct that the argument contains an informal fallacy The GP didn't say that. As for which informal fallacy the GGP's argument contained, I would say it was more like a false dilemma. And the GGP did say "almost tautological", which implicitly recognizes that there might be other possibilities. > people often express this criticism by saying "your argument is tautological," I have never seen this (nonsensical) way of expressing the criticism that an argument is false by saying that it is tautological (and therefore true).
toast0 2y ago
It would depend on the efficacy and the length of time its effective. One dose and very little strep for the rest of your life is different than an annual regimine. But you can't know how it will do before a lot of spending.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
YetAnotherNick 2y ago
And the wealthy country here just means United States. It is the only country where pharmaceutical companies could sell their products at any price.
tim333 2y ago
It sounds somewhat comparable to the Hepatitis A vaccine and I'm not sure many are sprinting to the pharmacies although it is moderately successful.

Molitor5901 2y ago

Vaccine makers could lobby the government to make the vaccine mandatory, thereby guaranteeing a revenue stream for the vaccine to reduce the financial risk.

K0balt 2y ago
[flagged]
fshbbdssbbgdd 2y ago
I wonder if people downvoted this because they took it as some kind of political point about COVID-19. Maybe it was, but I agree with it as a serious proposal. Even if the government is not confident in its ability to get people to accept vaccinations, it should commit to pay for the doses either way, to incentivize the development of the vaccine. In general, a contest or prize is a smart way to fund a public good. Among left and right economists, this is one thing most would agree on.
- fooker 2y ago
  Okay suppose the government commits to pay for it and keeps coercing people to take it. What happens when: (1) TotallyGenuine drug company realizes that they can still get paid giving out fake shots. (2) NotEvil drug company buys up it's smaller competitors and stops improving vaccines. (3) KeyboardScientist makes a viral post that the government is sterilizing people of a particular ethnicity. With a bit of googling, you can find events very close to all these three.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    And yet we still have many successful mandatory vaccination campaigns. Certainly they've been hurt by all the antivax garbage going around since the pandemic, but that doesn't make them not worthwhile.
    - fooker 2y ago
      We have also had many successful wars. Doesn't mean wars are the best way to solve issues.
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  I was actually thinking of Gardasil but yes, it could be applied to anything. It was not meant to be political.

pfdietz 2y ago

The concern with any Strep vaccine is stimulating autoimmune reactions. Rheumatic fever is just such a reaction associated with strep infection, and it can be very damaging, even deadly.

fny 2y ago

First, there are cheap alternatives (antibiotics) which limit the total market size. Second, it’s almost tautological. If there was enough profit to justify the development time and cost, drug companies would pursue a vaccine. Since they’re not pursuing a vaccine, you can assume there’s not enough estimated profit compared to other research ventures. The second point includes considerations of difficulty. There are many strep strains. Strep can trigger autoimmune diseases. Will the costs of surmounting these challenges be rewarded above other pursuits?

log_e 2y ago
You realize tautology is a logical fallacy, right?
- pdonis 2y ago
  Huh? A tautology is a statement that is automatically true by the laws of logic.
  - maxbond 2y ago
    GP is correct that the argument contains an informal fallacy[1], and people often express this criticism by saying "your argument is tautological," and you are correct that a tautology is a statement which is always true [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)
    - pdonis 2y ago
      > GP is correct that the argument contains an informal fallacy The GP didn't say that. As for which informal fallacy the GGP's argument contained, I would say it was more like a false dilemma. And the GGP did say "almost tautological", which implicitly recognizes that there might be other possibilities. > people often express this criticism by saying "your argument is tautological," I have never seen this (nonsensical) way of expressing the criticism that an argument is false by saying that it is tautological (and therefore true).

toast0 2y ago

It would depend on the efficacy and the length of time its effective. One dose and very little strep for the rest of your life is different than an annual regimine. But you can't know how it will do before a lot of spending.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

YetAnotherNick 2y ago

And the wealthy country here just means United States. It is the only country where pharmaceutical companies could sell their products at any price.

tim333 2y ago

It sounds somewhat comparable to the Hepatitis A vaccine and I'm not sure many are sprinting to the pharmacies although it is moderately successful.