4 ms·

RA? Climb or descend. Or any of these more accurately: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system#Types_of_traffic_and_resolution_advisori

by quink 2y ago

RA? Climb or descend. Or any of these more accurately: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system#Types_of_traffic_and_resolution_advisories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...

unsnap_biceps 2y ago
Sure, but which one? The Cessna doesn't have a TCAS to coordinate with, so how does it know which one is best? Does it just pick one and change it if the other aircraft reacts in the wrong way?
- crthpl 2y ago
  I think there is a deterministic algorithm (based on GPS position?) for determining who climbs and who descends.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- weaksauce 2y ago
  don't the planes know where the other is based on the fact that the tcas is yelling at them in the first place? easy enough to tell them to pull up if it knows they are below them.
  - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
    Certainly the one plane is aware of the other, however, I wonder if the algorithm takes into account the physical characteristics of the planes. For example, a 737 descending would take longer to pull up on and there would be a period of time where the engine are spooling up that it continues to descend before it gains altitude. Would it be smart enough to figure out that the 737 is going to end up below it before gaining altitude and thus should actually descend faster? Does it just go, that plane is blow me, so pull up? It's a fascinating problem to think about the different edge cases and how it could possible handle it.
    - weaksauce 2y ago
      yeah the system is constantly calculating velocities and positions in 3d space. there's a traffic advisory portion where it tells the pilots to be aware of traffic nearby and there's a resolution advisory which tells the pilots exactly what to do and at what rate. commercial pilots practice that in the sim extensively. the faa made having ads-b out mandatory for all aircraft some time ago which helps the planes see each other so the commercial one knew exactly where the smaller plane was. (though you can shut the device off or it could be malfunctioning but it wasn't here) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...
- quink 2y ago
  Ah, you meant which specific RA. While I don’t know, that’s become a more deterministic answer in the case of an airplane not following the instructions (or not having TCAS) because of Überlingen and the introduction of TCAS reversals… in other words exactly as you said, it’ll 1. change if the other aircraft reacts in the wrong way and 2. there’s a much greater clarity and emphasis in following the RAs in all cases except for GPWS in great part because of Überlingen. Edit: never mind the last bit, RAs actually get completely suppressed if GPWS does its thing, TAs still go through.

by quink 2y ago

unsnap_biceps 2y ago

Sure, but which one? The Cessna doesn't have a TCAS to coordinate with, so how does it know which one is best? Does it just pick one and change it if the other aircraft reacts in the wrong way?

crthpl 2y ago
I think there is a deterministic algorithm (based on GPS position?) for determining who climbs and who descends.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
weaksauce 2y ago
don't the planes know where the other is based on the fact that the tcas is yelling at them in the first place? easy enough to tell them to pull up if it knows they are below them.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  Certainly the one plane is aware of the other, however, I wonder if the algorithm takes into account the physical characteristics of the planes. For example, a 737 descending would take longer to pull up on and there would be a period of time where the engine are spooling up that it continues to descend before it gains altitude. Would it be smart enough to figure out that the 737 is going to end up below it before gaining altitude and thus should actually descend faster? Does it just go, that plane is blow me, so pull up? It's a fascinating problem to think about the different edge cases and how it could possible handle it.
  - weaksauce 2y ago
    yeah the system is constantly calculating velocities and positions in 3d space. there's a traffic advisory portion where it tells the pilots to be aware of traffic nearby and there's a resolution advisory which tells the pilots exactly what to do and at what rate. commercial pilots practice that in the sim extensively. the faa made having ads-b out mandatory for all aircraft some time ago which helps the planes see each other so the commercial one knew exactly where the smaller plane was. (though you can shut the device off or it could be malfunctioning but it wasn't here) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...
quink 2y ago
Ah, you meant which specific RA. While I don’t know, that’s become a more deterministic answer in the case of an airplane not following the instructions (or not having TCAS) because of Überlingen and the introduction of TCAS reversals… in other words exactly as you said, it’ll 1. change if the other aircraft reacts in the wrong way and 2. there’s a much greater clarity and emphasis in following the RAs in all cases except for GPWS in great part because of Überlingen. Edit: never mind the last bit, RAs actually get completely suppressed if GPWS does its thing, TAs still go through.