4 ms·

I was always very much in favour of opening up people's right to have control over the manner of their death, philosophically it seems inexcusable to me that we

I was always very much in favour of opening up people's right to have control over the manner of their death, philosophically it seems inexcusable to me that we routinely keep people alive well beyond the point where they are not only in unbearable agony, but where their condition and/or medical interventions necessary to sustain them have sapped every last ounce of meaning from their lives, leaving them no option but to starve themselves to death or use some other grisly means to end their own suffering in isolation from their loved ones, when they could have a relatively painless death at the time, manner, and in the presence of people of their own choosing. I knew that this obviously came with risks, old people being pressured into it to ease the burden on, or speed inheritance for their children, people being pressured to take pressure off the medical system, etc. But I believed that trying to manage these risks was well worth the outcome that people might be able to die with a shred of dignity intact. I have to say that the Canadian experience has made me wonder whether I was wrong. Not in a strong rhetorical sense, but it has given me more doubt than I've ever entertained before. Are we socially or systemically incapable of managing those risks given a certain institutional configuration? I don't know. Happy for people to provide counter evidence for me if they like. I really don't know what to think about this anymore.

candiddevmike 2y ago
I tend to believe institutional abuse stems from psychopathic tendencies of individuals empowered by/within those institutions. I think the institutions are OK/worthwhile in a vacuum, but struggle to figure out how you avoid having, for lack of a better term, "bad folks" working within them. Review boards always seem to become lazy/apathetic overtime, and the patients often lack agency/collateral to be assertive.
svieira 2y ago
> Are we socially or systemically incapable of managing those risks given a certain institutional configuration? Empirically, Canada says "yes". There are other reasons (philosophical, moral, religious) that will also speak to the folly of what Canada and Belgium are leading the way towards, but we are not to speak of those things any more - so we're left with the "what if we try it and don't like it - can't we just roll it back?" of the early years of another "forward-looking" society from the recent past.
jdietrich 2y ago
The British parliament is currently debating legislation to permit assisted dying in some limited circumstances. Five years ago I would have said that their proposals don't go far enough, but the implementation of MAID has made me far more cautious. I had always dismissed the "slippery slope" argument as being made in bad faith, but Canada seems to have given us an existence proof that a seemingly well-intentioned system can quickly start producing very bad outcomes.
nick__m 2y ago
Here in Québec acces to MAID is tightly regulated. Initially I tought it was too regulated but the excess in some other provinces sporadically making the news have made me realize that Québec probably have the right level of regulation around euthanasia.

candiddevmike 2y ago

I tend to believe institutional abuse stems from psychopathic tendencies of individuals empowered by/within those institutions. I think the institutions are OK/worthwhile in a vacuum, but struggle to figure out how you avoid having, for lack of a better term, "bad folks" working within them. Review boards always seem to become lazy/apathetic overtime, and the patients often lack agency/collateral to be assertive.

svieira 2y ago

> Are we socially or systemically incapable of managing those risks given a certain institutional configuration? Empirically, Canada says "yes". There are other reasons (philosophical, moral, religious) that will also speak to the folly of what Canada and Belgium are leading the way towards, but we are not to speak of those things any more - so we're left with the "what if we try it and don't like it - can't we just roll it back?" of the early years of another "forward-looking" society from the recent past.

jdietrich 2y ago

The British parliament is currently debating legislation to permit assisted dying in some limited circumstances. Five years ago I would have said that their proposals don't go far enough, but the implementation of MAID has made me far more cautious. I had always dismissed the "slippery slope" argument as being made in bad faith, but Canada seems to have given us an existence proof that a seemingly well-intentioned system can quickly start producing very bad outcomes.

nick__m 2y ago

Here in Québec acces to MAID is tightly regulated. Initially I tought it was too regulated but the excess in some other provinces sporadically making the news have made me realize that Québec probably have the right level of regulation around euthanasia.