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> It soon stopped being about that I submit that it could never have actually been about that. It may have been out of the states control but it was far to te

> It soon stopped being about that I submit that it could never have actually been about that. It may have been out of the states control but it was far to technocratic and dependent on first movers so it was always going to leave behind the class of people you hoped it would most benefit. > the original spirit of Bitcoin Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_. People projected quite a bit onto that.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Yep, it was very obviously going to produce landgrab dynamics. Like... it would be utterly astounding for someone not to see that from day one.
- labster 2y ago
  All of the banks and state regulation keep getting in the way. It’s like there’s a fence in the middle of a path — all we need to do is get rid of the fence and everything will obviously improve.
  - blacksmith_tb 2y ago
    Not sure if that's earnest or satirical - remove all the regulation, and things will improve for some, but I am not optimistic they'll be ordinary people. It seems much more likely to me that wild-west financial transactions will benefit banks and not ordinary folks? I am quite fond of regulations limiting arbitrary fees, for example...
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      I believe GP's comment is a reference of Chesterton's Fence [1] (an excellent image to load into your brain!). I think they agree with you. [1] https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/ https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
      - labster 2y ago
        That, and also adding that naive reformist attitudes are incredibly common. Chesterton’s fence is a cognitive tool a lot of people don’t have, or that they only manage to apply in one narrow field of expertise. “I don’t know how anyone could think X” where X is a naive position, is kind of funny, so I replied kind of funnily to remind people that the underlying principle is not obvious.
- pram 2y ago
  This was explicitly the aim of projects like Urbit too, literally feudal lords ruling over their virtual real estate lol
- wmf 2y ago
  You say that, but I remember the talk in 2009-2011 being about replacing Visa, not about hodling and speculation.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Right, which was a mixture of dishonesty, self-delusion, and naivety from the start. A deflationary asset will only ever be used for hodling and speculation. Also, Visa works almost literally flawlessly for tens of billions of dollars of transactions (hundreds of millions of individual transactions) every day. A technologically inferior system wasn’t going to replace it regardless of its ideological purity.
tim333 2y ago
>Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_ Also anonymous or semi anonymous. Worldcoin is largely about that.

llamaimperative 2y ago

Yep, it was very obviously going to produce landgrab dynamics. Like... it would be utterly astounding for someone not to see that from day one.

labster 2y ago
All of the banks and state regulation keep getting in the way. It’s like there’s a fence in the middle of a path — all we need to do is get rid of the fence and everything will obviously improve.
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  Not sure if that's earnest or satirical - remove all the regulation, and things will improve for some, but I am not optimistic they'll be ordinary people. It seems much more likely to me that wild-west financial transactions will benefit banks and not ordinary folks? I am quite fond of regulations limiting arbitrary fees, for example...
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    I believe GP's comment is a reference of Chesterton's Fence [1] (an excellent image to load into your brain!). I think they agree with you. [1] https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/ https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
    - labster 2y ago
      That, and also adding that naive reformist attitudes are incredibly common. Chesterton’s fence is a cognitive tool a lot of people don’t have, or that they only manage to apply in one narrow field of expertise. “I don’t know how anyone could think X” where X is a naive position, is kind of funny, so I replied kind of funnily to remind people that the underlying principle is not obvious.
pram 2y ago
This was explicitly the aim of projects like Urbit too, literally feudal lords ruling over their virtual real estate lol
wmf 2y ago
You say that, but I remember the talk in 2009-2011 being about replacing Visa, not about hodling and speculation.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Right, which was a mixture of dishonesty, self-delusion, and naivety from the start. A deflationary asset will only ever be used for hodling and speculation. Also, Visa works almost literally flawlessly for tens of billions of dollars of transactions (hundreds of millions of individual transactions) every day. A technologically inferior system wasn’t going to replace it regardless of its ideological purity.

tim333 2y ago

>Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_ Also anonymous or semi anonymous. Worldcoin is largely about that.