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> Tragedy of the commons is why short term is all that matters and will ever matter to non-ideological investors. Tragedy of the commons was an ideological ess

> Tragedy of the commons is why short term is all that matters and will ever matter to non-ideological investors. Tragedy of the commons was an ideological essay designed to justify privatization of public goods. It was disproven by data before it was published. I am sure there are some hyper specific examples where it has happened as described, but as a “fact” about the world and as a justification for any course of action, it’s highly suspect. https://aeon.co/essays/the-tragedy-of-the-commons-is-a-false-and-dangerous-myth https://aeon.co/essays/the-tragedy-of-the-commons-is-a-false...

eutropia 2y ago
This is the first I've heard that it's false; however it seems like many times in my life I've observed something suffering, seemingly from lack of ownership despite being a common good. What do you call that if you can't call it a tragedy of the commons?
- reaperman 2y ago
  On HN I’ve seen regular claims that “tragedy of the commons has been disproven”. I’ve not yet identified which social bubble propagates this or what it is based on but there seems to be some niche in which people are being taught that it is categorically proven to be an invalid concept.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    It's more than one person - it happened in a recent comment I made: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41758008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41758008 I suspect some popular blog/YouTube channel made some waves around it.
    - 9dev 2y ago
      That persons argumentation is awful, however. Another patient soul took the time to challenge the idea with logic, and there wasn’t much actually supporting the idea in response.
      - kennywinker 2y ago
        I’d just like to note that i disagree with your summarization. They defend their perspective quite well imo
  - kennywinker 2y ago
    > I am sure there are some hyper specific examples where it has happened as described, but as a “fact” about the world and as a justification for any course of action, it’s highly suspect. You read that and understood “categorically proven to be an invalid concept”?
    - reaperman 2y ago
      I hope it was clear to most readers of my comment that I was talking about a general line of rhetoric rather than this specific post. However, from the parent comment I keyed in on your quote less, and much more on: > It was disproven FWIW.
- kennywinker 2y ago
  Lack of accountability. People cite the tragedy of the commons to discourage sharing of resources. The idea that common land should be divvied up into private ownership to prevent them falling into ruin. When really shared resources just need accountability between the people who make use of them. It’s just basic game theory: If there is no cost to abusing your opponent, that strategy will get used. But if you’re going to be playing long term with the same people, systems will form to deter abuse.
SideQuark 2y ago
Tragedy of the common is a concept dating back to ancient times that has extremely broad empirical support throughout history. The essay you mention took the name from all this real world experience, and even if the essay is bad, the concept is anything but. A simple search finds more examples and references to literature than you can likely read in years. I’d recommend starting here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
- kennywinker 2y ago
  Dating back to ancient times - specifically Aristotle. Aristotle also believed that women are deformed men. That some people deserve to be enslaved. That deaf people are incapable of reason. So, just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s true. Just like “kids these days” or “seems like nobody wants to work anymore” some bad ideas are evergreen.
  - SideQuark 2y ago
    > So, just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s true No one claimed it's true because it's old. If you like reasoning fallacies, you should love the concept of a strawman.
HDThoreaun 2y ago
When the UK enclosed their fields so that they were privately controlled crop yield immediately went up 20%. Theres overwhelming empiric evidence of tragedy of the commons being real.
- kennywinker 2y ago
  it’s a specific viewpoint that chooses to measure success in terms of crop yields, rather than quality of life… The tragedy of the commons didn’t claim that crop yields are slightly depressed. The claim is that the commons will be overused to the point of threatening to destroy it.
IggleSniggle 2y ago
I don't disagree that it was an ideological "essay" but I dunno why you're linking that when it's most associated with Aristotle, in particular: "What is common to many is taken least care of, for all men have greater regard for what is their own than for what they possess in common with others." Maybe you're suggesting that that essay popularized the phrasing? But I'm pretty sure even as a coined "term" it was around before then
deleted 2y ago
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eutropia 2y ago

This is the first I've heard that it's false; however it seems like many times in my life I've observed something suffering, seemingly from lack of ownership despite being a common good. What do you call that if you can't call it a tragedy of the commons?

reaperman 2y ago
On HN I’ve seen regular claims that “tragedy of the commons has been disproven”. I’ve not yet identified which social bubble propagates this or what it is based on but there seems to be some niche in which people are being taught that it is categorically proven to be an invalid concept.
- bombcar 2y ago
  It's more than one person - it happened in a recent comment I made: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41758008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41758008 I suspect some popular blog/YouTube channel made some waves around it.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    That persons argumentation is awful, however. Another patient soul took the time to challenge the idea with logic, and there wasn’t much actually supporting the idea in response.
    - kennywinker 2y ago
      I’d just like to note that i disagree with your summarization. They defend their perspective quite well imo
- kennywinker 2y ago
  > I am sure there are some hyper specific examples where it has happened as described, but as a “fact” about the world and as a justification for any course of action, it’s highly suspect. You read that and understood “categorically proven to be an invalid concept”?
  - reaperman 2y ago
    I hope it was clear to most readers of my comment that I was talking about a general line of rhetoric rather than this specific post. However, from the parent comment I keyed in on your quote less, and much more on: > It was disproven FWIW.
kennywinker 2y ago
Lack of accountability. People cite the tragedy of the commons to discourage sharing of resources. The idea that common land should be divvied up into private ownership to prevent them falling into ruin. When really shared resources just need accountability between the people who make use of them. It’s just basic game theory: If there is no cost to abusing your opponent, that strategy will get used. But if you’re going to be playing long term with the same people, systems will form to deter abuse.

SideQuark 2y ago

Tragedy of the common is a concept dating back to ancient times that has extremely broad empirical support throughout history. The essay you mention took the name from all this real world experience, and even if the essay is bad, the concept is anything but. A simple search finds more examples and references to literature than you can likely read in years. I’d recommend starting here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

kennywinker 2y ago
Dating back to ancient times - specifically Aristotle. Aristotle also believed that women are deformed men. That some people deserve to be enslaved. That deaf people are incapable of reason. So, just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s true. Just like “kids these days” or “seems like nobody wants to work anymore” some bad ideas are evergreen.
- SideQuark 2y ago
  > So, just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s true No one claimed it's true because it's old. If you like reasoning fallacies, you should love the concept of a strawman.

HDThoreaun 2y ago

When the UK enclosed their fields so that they were privately controlled crop yield immediately went up 20%. Theres overwhelming empiric evidence of tragedy of the commons being real.

kennywinker 2y ago
it’s a specific viewpoint that chooses to measure success in terms of crop yields, rather than quality of life… The tragedy of the commons didn’t claim that crop yields are slightly depressed. The claim is that the commons will be overused to the point of threatening to destroy it.

IggleSniggle 2y ago

I don't disagree that it was an ideological "essay" but I dunno why you're linking that when it's most associated with Aristotle, in particular: "What is common to many is taken least care of, for all men have greater regard for what is their own than for what they possess in common with others." Maybe you're suggesting that that essay popularized the phrasing? But I'm pretty sure even as a coined "term" it was around before then

deleted 2y ago

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